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 6th Ed and Your Army

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dann.toh
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PostSubject: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:15 am

Just for community discussion, let's put up a summary of what changes we forsee in the way we build / field or play our armies in 6th ed.

I'll start with my Nids:

Overall, not much change. Boneswords, Rending and Toxin Sacs are still good and remain in my army. I definitely want more gaunts in my army... the Original Tarpits are back! New considerations for my army are Flying Hive Tyrants for their swoop and vector strike attacks. Imagine, swoop, cast paroxysm, give opponent raspberries as termagants charge into them hahaha.


Blood Angels:
Not sure if I wanna keep my Librarian as Preferred Enemy and Psychic Hoods has been significantly nerfed. And my Dread is gonna swap his blood talons for blood fists. I think I'm gonna put an extra Power Fist in each Sanguinary Guard Unit, just to kill Termies. Other than that, the strat remains the same: fly into enemy lines, deploy, kill.


Dark Eldar:
Herein lies the biggest change. Thankfully I only have like 800pts of my army collected. For starters, my idea for a Webway Strike army is flushed down the drain. My original plan had at least 70% of my army in reserve. Also, not being able to assault out of reserve hurts Webway Portal armies as my dudes just stand around doing nothing for one turn... Now I have to think to rebuild from scratch.

Immediate changes I can see are: more Disintergrators, less Dark Lances. Haywire is the way to go - with every three hits, one tank goes poof!

I'm considering adding an ally here... ORKS! I want a full 30 man Boyz blob (or 2) as zombie hordes!
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:33 am

Blood Angels and Fire Angels:

More Terminators in general thanks to 2+ being the gold standard in armour. Also considering switching from meltas to more lascannons and plasma weapons due to AP2 being as good as the old AP1. Gonna take libbys to test out new psychic powers. Loving divination and telepathy at the moment.

Imperial Guard

Perhaps i will add a few vendetta gunships and some hydra flak tanks for anti air. Will have to revise how i play my tanks due to HP rules...
Will probably take a BA libby as an ally to use the divination skill for re-rolls.


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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:47 am

For me,


CSM
being a MEQ is quite happy, definately add more cheep terminators. I don't see much change to my build atm, mostlikely I will replace my obliterators with havoc squads

DE
I really felt it got Slap in the face by that thick ass rulebook. With the rise of more terminators in marine armies, I definately will be swapping out my ravages to disitengrators. And my wyches to bomber wyches with the sole job Being charging tanks like some terrorist.

For my hq retinue I will be opting incubi rather than my blood brides, keep the unit cost low so that I can spread the love on my other units. I am considering using raiders with warriors splinter racks and night shields, making them a mobile 24 reroll poison weapon platform.

Overall I am going more shooty, DE fast options are getting a second glance, hellions gained a lot in this edition being fleeting, jump infantry. A unit of 10 will leash out 20 poison attacks before the charge and another 10 I10 free attacks before 27 str4 attacks and 4 agoniser attacks.

That is before I count in the Barron which gives the unit stealth, and other upgrades like +1 to who starts first, reroll difficult terrain and a few minor ones.
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:39 am

Nice thread.

For me, the biggest and most awesome change to my army is that I can now add in more models. Hahaha.

Blood Angels:
BA Bikes are awesome, no need to explain.
Shooty Terminators for the 2+ armour, power fists, and shooting capabilities.
Psycho Sanguinary Guards.
Death Company is so much fun now. I will definitely make 2 Death Company Dreadnoughts with power fists.
Rhinos can now move 24", it's insane.
Corbulo is your new god.


Alpha Legion:
They just need a new Codex.


Iron Warrios:
Playable since I play their style of vehicle spam and heavy weapon spam.

Raptors:
Stealth is good. Lias Issodon have the precision strike rule, which makes him scary. With all the speeders and bikes getting the Jink cover save, definitely a plus to the army. Also, the clarification of 3+ saves on some vehicles.


Orks:
Transports are crazy funny now. Don't think anyone will want to assault a Battle Wagon loaded with Shoota Boyz.


My other armies, next time only I'll think about it. Too focused with my BA for now.

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:18 am

dann.toh wrote:

Immediate changes I can see are: more Disintergrators, less Dark Lances. Haywire is the way to go - with every three hits, one tank goes poof!


Why less Dark Lances? They are still great with AP2. +1 to penetration result. And FnP denial for T4 as well termies 2+ saves.
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:29 am

Cannot deny Bike's FnP and cover save. Heh heh heh... And it's less shots. But of course, it's all about balance in the army.

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:48 am

oh forgot to include mine. so many armies. lolz


NECRONS
- Overlord on CCB is a chariot. Can assault in combat. Equip him with MMS, fly and hunt those single model MC running around.
- Annihilator Barges are a MUST. Move 12" fire 1 main, snapshot the 2nd gun. Snap shot? Who cares? Tesla rocks!
- Lychguards also super awesome. Having Power Axes means S6. No need to fear dreads locking them in combat. As they are not fearless, they can also move away from getting locked in combat.
- Mindshackle swarms has got better with challenge. The FAQ and the new wound allocation will force affected model to deal wounds to surrounding nearest models. So those tactic of assigning wounds to himself first since he will not strike will no longer work. A model affected can only assign wounds to himself if he is alone or in challenge.
- Crypteks are characters so they can do precision shots. ChronoLance court has got better with the S8 AP2. Not to mention, they can snapshot against enemy assault if the enemy assaulting the Ghost Ark they are in!
- Destroyer lord with Wraiths are insane! He gives the Wraiths preferred enemy!
- Don't really need Triarch Stalker now since glances can kill raiders. Just eat GAUSS fire!
- Flyers are crazy too but no chance to play with them to find out more.


DAEMONS
- Flying Monstrous Creatures are as crazy as flyers.
- Bloodcrushers sucks now with their hellblades only AP3.
- Fiends of Slaanesh is better now since Beast is not slowed down by difficult terrain and can go up buildings! lolz
- With Flying Fateweaver, is even harder to take it down.


TYRANIDS
- As Dann has mentioned, horde style will rock now.
- Trygon kinda suck now with no +1 Ini on Furious Charge.
- Trygon will be combo-ing with Tervigon to get the FnP since AP1/2 doesn't negate FnP.


ORKS
- Nob bikers list has gotten stronger since Bikes have been powered up.
- Shootas and Lootas got better too since can snapfire on overwatch.
- Precision Strikes will hurt our Orks as they can take out our Nob early.


Lazy to do for my DE and CSM dy. lolz
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:26 am

CSM

- Kharn can go home sleep liao while Typhus made the evil laugh while saying "it's showtime !!"
- Maximize my chosen to the next level, 1 squad 5 melta, 2 squads 5 plasma, all in rhino to make use the new infiltrate rules.
- Maybe call in flying BT or flying DP from Daemon codex to enjoy some swooping fun.
- Swap in 1 squad of obby for 1 more havoc, full of missile love
- Probably footslogging or use rhino as wall like the old time.
- Will consider raptor attached with a jump pack fist lord also.
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:14 am

Eldar
The old Jain Zar, Banshees & Scorps from Wave Serpents, etc will not work now. In fact, my old way of aggressively playing non-Assault transports just won't work at all. But Rangers rock! Precision hits at AP1!! yes! Plus, they can at least shoot something while moving. Harlequins are awesome - go for full squad of 10, and with the Shadowseer there, they get cover saves better than Pathfinders! Fire Dragons are even better now, as you watch them blow up tanks AND MCs in close combat. Swooping Hawks looks set to make a comeback. And even my Seer on jet (though his singing spear not as powerful as before). Fire Prisms and Wraithlords are sexy too. My Eldar will definitely change a bit, but it looks like a lot of fun! And allies - DE!!! Just so I can use that cool jetfighter model!

IG
Not impacted too much, I guess (except for my Armored company - those guys will suffer a little). Basilisk and Manticores are now also crazy tank killers (just like 3rd ed). I might just consider giving my infantry heavy bolters now. Might just switch las/plas Demolishers to heavy bolter ones. Punishers look sexy. And my large infantry platoons actually become a bit more scary than before. And of course, the Vendetta/Valkyrie look super sexy. Talking about that, my AirCav has become that much more awesome and characterful. I may need to deploy 3 of the squads (and thus might add heavy weapons to them) at the start of the game, but it will be worth it just to see the flight of Vendetta/Valkyrie zoom onto the battlefield! Time to get Ride of the Valkyire on my iPod!

Ravenwing
No more uber scout moves and first-turn charges for these biker dudes (Necrons rejoice! in fact, 6th ed seems to be real good for Necrons), but otherwise, not much change.

Thousand Sons
6th ed is good for these dudes! Lord Amun Seth, the flying daemon prince, might just make a come-back! Slow and purposeful not being I1 is good! There are some drawbacks (like not being able to Gift from inside a Land Raider), but all in all, the Sons will be meaner than ever. And there's the thing about allies too! We could see the return of Lord Ka'Kaaa - and who knows, maybe after so many years away he may just return as a Fateweaver! And it's time for me to get my Flamers too! Finally. Looking good, my Sons - and this is before the new CSM codex too! Evil or Very Mad
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:34 pm

Dr-DOOOM!!! wrote:
dann.toh wrote:

Immediate changes I can see are: more Disintergrators, less Dark Lances. Haywire is the way to go - with every three hits, one tank goes poof!


Why less Dark Lances? They are still great with AP2. +1 to penetration result. And FnP denial for T4 as well termies 2+ saves.


Armour is gonna be dealt with haywire. 3 haywire templates is gonna down a tank. If it scatters and hits two tanks, all the better. the other item i'm considering is the heatlance...

I forsee a trend of Thunderhammers and storms shields. In which case, I think spamming shots seem more effective at this point.
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:39 pm

Yea imagine this you got a squad of 5 wyches charge a land raider you going to definitely getting rid of it Very Happy insta wreck

For the DE to me

Beastmaster - The crow thinggie is rending, a flock of 6 has 36 attacks on a charge... if you put poison blade on the beast master thats another 6 poison attacks in a charge the point cost is 131pts!
Hellions
Jetbikes - caltropes!
Scourges - jet pack unit
Raider with warriors + splinter racks
Wych grenadiers - a squad of 5 charging a vehicle just need to roll 2+ to damage the tank, even if 2 roll 1s you still cause 3 hull point damage, a base 5 wyches with haywire on a venom is 115pts
Harlequin - are also made better in this edition.


Maybe
Incubi deathstar - Have Drazhar lead the incubi and another klaive to carry a second demiklave... thats a lot, a lot of AP2,AP3 PW attacks, Drazhar can challange, while the others fight on, and with him in the unit the incubi become fearless.
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:35 pm

it's too bad riposte cannot use the combined demiklaive profile...


hey just wanna check something, do beasts strike at Ini1 after charging through difficult terrain? They aren't slowed by it though. I don't have the book to read this now la Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:40 pm

nope. they are not affected. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:51 pm

razor flocks for the win!

and use FW flying rippers to replace those ugly DE ones

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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:00 pm

oh ya, about grenades.. just to clarify. if used for shooting, only 1 grenade from the unit can be thrown (even if all are equiped).

yes, just get unit of wyches with haywire grenades assault a land raider. 4 glancing hits. bye bye raider. i guess we can say bye bye to raider lists nowadays. (there goes my World Eater list) Sad
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:03 pm

Yea. wyches are now my best anti tank unit, which in a way is a good thing i guess... can replace half of my lances with disintegrator cannons instead
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:34 pm

Besides Flyers, I generally view my armies being a bit better against others but I still play a non-competitive list so yeah..

Hive Fleet of Bahamut

1. Because of the awesomesauce of psychic disciplines, I'm considering having them for my psykers, especially Biomancy and Telepathy. I might use my a Swarmlord to get 4 psychic disciplines but I rarely count my Flyrant as one. D3 plus to STR and T and FNP is what I'm hoping to roll for, STR 7~9 T7~9 Flyrant that lasts for two turns? Hell yeah.

2. Nothing can assault from reserves or infiltrating, big nerf for my army which depends heavily on assaulting. But being able to almost absolutely come out at Turn 2, I don't mind it.

3. Half reserved units of an army, almost thought this could also be a nerf but once I counted it didn't change my strategy at all. Deathleaper and Spores are units that has to be in reserve and as the rule for reserves says they are not counted for the total units that can be in reserve, which leaves my trygons, termagants, genestealers and Doom of Malan'tai, all able to be kept in reserve if I wanted to.

4. I can challenge with my Broodlord. Nothing practically very good about it but I modelled my Broodlord to look like the pose of "Come at me Bro!", so I guess it's an aesthetic plus for me.

5. 4 Smash attacks with Trygons, is the thing I feel iffy about, I understand why they removed 2D6 penetration full attacks, because MCs would have owned any vehicle it touches since you get abundance of attacks to glance or pen them. I believe it's still the same I guess with STR10 re-rollable hits and penetrating results.

6. POISON! Is awesome with MCs and genestealers with FC now, not only they re-roll if Toughness is equal of higher than enemies, they can wound lower than 4+.

7. The suckiest thing of them all, nerfed Preferred enemy. But I'd probably still buy Old Adversary for my gargoyles.

8. Deathleaper has Stealth and Shrouded rules.


Black Moon Cadre.

The FAQ cleared alot but still didn't make sense to acute senses on Crisis Suits and Broadsides. Only one of the Warlord Traits lets you have one unit outflank and that's not a definite outcome.

1. Regrettably it's units I don't usually use that gets the boost, stealth suits, shadowsun and sniper drone squads gain Stealth and Shrouded rules now. They are practically 2+ saves in any ruins and 5+ covers. Vespids are also a bit better now, deepstriking into terrain is not dangerous at all

2. Firewarriors Rapid fire at 15", this has it's small advantages since charging is 2" to 12", an average 7-8" to be statistical. Also being able to move and fire at 30" is a nice plus, no need to be static all the time.

3. Overwatch all the way.

4. Target lock was removed, I mainly used it my squad of broadsides, but Slow n Purposeful got better and I might just use that instead.

5. Nothing to deal with Flyers without using allies or fortification. I'm just hoping that one railgun shot makes its way through a stormraven. I'm loyal to my Cadre so I'll just have to handicap myself.

6. All skimmers have jinks and can flat out to get 4+ cover save, woot. Disruption pods seems impractical now except when they get immobilised, but when that happens, it's gonna get destroyed anyways.

7. Ethereal can die and give preferred enemy, but PE sucks now. So he's still useless, although slightly less.

8. Fielding a gunline Tau wouldn't be too bad now.

9. Blacksun filters ignore night fighting now, guess I'll be adding points to each battlesuits now.

10. Bonding Knife lets you always regroup at unmodified Ld. Thing is, regrouping isn't too hard now and if I end up with just model from my 3 battlesuits and gun drones, leaving just one left alive is highly unlikely since they are target magnets.

11. Guns are still pretty effective against anything but FNP. Whilst more effective against cover save dependents.


Last edited by AznJake on Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:38 pm

AznJake wrote:

3. Half reserved units of an army, almost thought this could also be a nerf but once I counted it didn't change my strategy at all. Deathleaper and Spores are units that has to be in reserve and as the rule for reserves says they are not counted for the total units that can be in reserve, which leaves my trygons, termagants, genestealers and Doom of Malan'tai, all able to be kept in reserve if I wanted to.


Sorry to correct you again Jake. But there is no way for an army to be all in reserve, except for Daemons of course.

P122; Victory Conditions: 'if at the end of any game turn, one played has no models on the battlefield, his opponent automatically wins'

Even if a player plays all Flyers. Something must be on the table. Else, is auto win for opponent on turn 1. lolz
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:52 pm

I still have my Flyrant and Gargoyles on the deployment, FYI, I thought it was clear when I didn't mention them as putting in reserve.
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:09 pm

sorry, you didn't specify what was on the table. misunderstood your wordings. Razz
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:05 pm

Necron CCB can only sweep attack up to 12" now right?
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:08 pm

Raven Guard
Jump Pack is now relevant again, must I explain more?
However, since you can assault after coming from reserve, outflanking Shrike and CC Scouts doesn't look that strong anymore --> will need to play them in another way.

Alpha Legion/CSM
Looking good, especially the Plague Marines and Plague Bikers, with a potential of 'broken-ness' when allied with Epidemius.
Can start to dust off my Typhus from the cabinet already.
However, a new codex will soon come.

Nurgle Daemons
One of Epidemius' tally: FNP at 3+ has now become ridiculous.
More mobility, due to new Slow and Purposeful rules.

Eldar
Jink on all my skimmers, while others remained relatively the same.
The Warlord trait is a bonus.
Will probably unleash the Harlequins.

Inquisition
Badly nerfed due to revised assault rules (can't assault if transport moved more than 6") and PW being AP3.
Dreadknight has become much better.

Minotaurs
My foot slogging 'hordish' marine army suddenly looked stronger, especially since it is supported by an Achilles and lots of Terminators --> gotta finish painting them fast.
Still waiting for the Thunderfire Cannon for this army to be complete at 1750 (any news, Alvin?)
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Mon Jul 02, 2012 5:46 pm

AznJake wrote:
Necron CCB can only sweep attack up to 12" now right?

yup, sadly the threat range is only 12" for sweep attack. but it was compensated with the ability to assault after that with it. and has impact hits of D6 S6 AP-. Not bad. Best is that it now has Jink rule. So not moving flat out, I still get 5+ cover save. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:22 am

Quote :
Inquisition
Badly nerfed due to revised assault rules (can't assault if transport moved more than 6") and PW being AP3.
Actually bro.. we cant assault at all if our model is inside a vehicle at the start of out movement unless the transport has "Assault Vehicle" rules.

So now to charge we need to disembark during our movement phase, suffer one turn of shooting, move and assault when it comes back to our turn.
LR is the only way to go with my World Eaters right now. Damn I only have one!!
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PostSubject: Re: 6th Ed and Your Army   Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:30 am

yea, assault type of units in rhinos will suffer.
hahaha. luckily i didnt opt for rhino rush last time. Razz
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