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 2000pts of greater good.

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doc
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doc


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2000pts of greater good. Empty
PostSubject: 2000pts of greater good.   2000pts of greater good. EmptyThu Oct 18, 2012 5:05 pm

HQ
Commander Shadowsun (175)

Commander Shas'o Makbem - Airburst Fragment Projector, Fusion Blaster, Shield Generator, Hard Wired Drone Controller - 2 shield Drones.
Bodyguard Shas'vre - Flamer, Fusion Blaster, Shield Generator, H.W. Multitracker (238)

Elites
Stealth Team
5x Stealth Team with Burst Cannons,
Team Leader, H.W. Blacksun filter, H.W. Drone Controller with 2 Marker Drones (215)

XV8 Crisis Battlesuit
XV8 Crisis Battlesuit - Flamer, Plasma Rifle, Shield Generator
Xv8 Crisis Battlesuit Team Leader - Flamer, Plasma Rifle, Shield Generator, H.W. Drone Controller with 2 Shield Drones (173)

Troops
10 Firewarriors (100)
10 Firewarriors (100)
10 Kroot Carnivore - Shaper with 6+ armour save. (101)

Fast Attack
Pathfinders
7xPathfinders & Devilfish- Distruption Pod. (169)

Pirahna Light Skimmer - Distruption Pod, Fusion Blaster (70)

Heavy Support
Hammerhead Gunship- Distruption Pod, Multitracker, Railgun, Smart Missle System. (175)
Hammerhead Gunship- Distruption Pod, Multitracker, Railgun, Smart Missle System. (175)
XV88 Broadside
#1 - Shield Generator, Smart Missile System.
#2 - Shield Generator, Smart Missile System.
#3 - Team Leader, Shield Generator, Smart Missile System, Hard Wired Drone Controller with 2 Shield Drones. (305)

Let me know what you guys think....



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AznJake
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts of greater good.   2000pts of greater good. EmptyThu Oct 18, 2012 6:45 pm

Hey, it's me again. Smile

1. Shadowsun - Problems with her, she's T3, assault cannons ID her, no shield generator and she has two meltaguns which would mean on the few first rounds, she's just an HQ providing Ld bonus.

2. Your other HQ - is independent, the bodyguard is exactly the same as a normal crisis suit team leader. The difference is he's cheaper and a character but bodyguards are not because of the FAQ. Hence you could just stick your HQ with the crisis suit team leader.

3. "Stealth Markerlight Team" is expensive, but I guess you want to put marker drones on it because they have shrouded and stealth rule. You don't need the blacksun filter here, your burst cannon has a short range, markerlights' range is 36" (maximum range of night fighting) and people don't get cover saves because you just need to hit.

4. You have a total of 4 crisis suits, with two only having plasma rifles and no missile pods. The problem is range and against 2+ armour saves. You will most likely not survive an army like Dann's Sanguinary Guards. Just keep that in mind when you play test.

5. The kroot shaper = 3 extra kroots; the +1 Ld. Did you add 6+ armour to all your kroots? Save the points for extra kroots or other things, with them you need to utilise cover saves more often than others, especially if there are forest terrains.

6. Get the targetting array on the piranha, BS 3 fusion blaster is so unreliable.

7. Shields drones on broadsides are perfect, but I wouldn't recommend just putting gun drones on everyone else, you will see people aiming their missile launchers at your suits because it IDs them, but for that kind of cost for that 50% chance of saving is not really worth it, since it's cheaper and still hope for cover saves. Gun drones are super expendable.

8. Shield generators point cost = a plasma rifle. Your crisis suits are jetpackers, use Jump Shoot Jump to avoid getting killed. There are several tactics on it in Advanced Tau Tactica forum.

Right now your list is more towards mid to close range in terms of offence, besides your railguns. If your opponent is already in mid to close range of distance to you, you are almost guaranteed a wipe out if the army was CC specialised. Flamers and fusion blasters will only do so little at that time.

Below would be some advice on playing Tau effectively. One look at your army list and I know you don't play them much. They are very general advices so it is best you keep them in mind and just practice.

Don't rely on markerlights too much, you should focus which few units requires it the most and which unit does not, etc. twin-linking weapons and targeting arrays. If you rely on them too heavily, once they are gone, it's easy picking for your opponent.

Concentrated and long ranged firepower are what the Tau Empire boasts at, more than half of your army will always have to try and kill the same critical units together through the turns.

Deployment is the utmost importance for Tau, in some circumstances, this will determine whether you survive first two turns since some armies like DA can deep-strike terminators on the first turn, if you can't deal with them effectively, they will just slaughter every unit one by one. Always castle against a CC specialised army, doing so will slow down the onslaught of CC units and protecting key units in the back.
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dann.toh
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts of greater good.   2000pts of greater good. EmptyFri Oct 19, 2012 5:31 am

I like how I'm becoming this benchmark of 2+ armies... -.-;

Anyway, my thoughts, damn expensive! How did you manage to get 2000pts with so few units?! I think a list I crafted last year had even more stuff for 1750!

Anyway, I'd throw out the Stealth team and exchange them for more Crisis cuz you need more AP goodness (yes, to fight armies like mine...)
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doc
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts of greater good.   2000pts of greater good. EmptyFri Oct 19, 2012 5:44 am

You are right Aznjake, I just finished painting the Tau army and have never played them before.
Some suggestions please.
1) Best weapon upgrades for XV8 Battlesuits.
2) How many XV8s do you use?
3) If not Shadowsun, shall I take another Commander?
4) For Point no.3, Stealth Suits, I was thinking of using them as a unit to support the Marker Drones. When anyone comes near, I open up the Burst cannons. And they will be definitely be protected by the Firewarriors also.
5) By your note, I see that you prefer Plasma Rifle above other weapons and you'll forgo the shield generator for it. I will try to make another list following your advice.
Do you use them as twin linked or Plasme rifle, Missle Pod with Targeting Array?

I will visit the site 'Advance Tau Tactica' for more and thank you very much for your advice.

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AznJake
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PostSubject: Re: 2000pts of greater good.   2000pts of greater good. EmptySat Oct 20, 2012 3:56 am

@Dann, it's just on the top of my head of 2+ armour save armies. I've never seen much of other armies that are as durable as yours if you ask me, hahah.

1. There's no best but people generally use weapons that they already had in mind know what the crisis suits are suppose to do. Regardless, the 'Fireknife' configuration is the most common for competitive players which is usually Plasma Rifle + Missile Pod + Multitracker. Plasma rifle for power armoured/termies and Missile Pod for light vehicles, both weapons could do a little bit of both in some situations.

2. I have 9 crisis suits, a common number of suits but uncommon configurations. I have a unit of Fireknives, Helios (Plasma Rifle and Fusion Blaster) and Soulstorm (Flamer and Burst Cannon). They are more of diversity than competitive reasons for me since I dislike spamming.

That said, it is for you to decide what type of army you want, because more crisis suits means less for everything else, but the bright side is your suits can be much more specialised, for an example Twin-linking plasma rifle and getting a targetting array on it meant your very accurate at aiming marine equivalents, at the expense of doing anything else.

It is possible to take 15 crisis suits in total, with "Farsight Bomb" you could take 20 crisis suits. However, this is an expensive route in terms of real money (or point cost), not to mention weapons don't come extra.

3. I forgot Shadowsun has stealth field generators, but then a powerfist could easily kill her though.

Generally Codex Special Characters are weaker than the two Forge World ones, R'alai and R'myr. Aun'va is the worst whilst most people use Farsight as the sight of 8 Crisis suits packing with loads of weapons and drones that are deep striking in front of enemies is to behold, hence the term "Farsight Bomb", but then easily crushed because that is one very expensive and easy target to choose from.

On the other hand, keeping your HQ Crisis Suit as cheap as possible is also a competitive option, since Tau is not "One type unit to rule them all" kind of army, every unit you have in your army has to be synergistic with each other in some way. Sacrificing points to make one unit "tough" is not what you want to do, such as having a 2+, 4++, FNP with Shield Drones HQ Crisis Suit, that dies from one lascannon or melta shot when it goes through.

4. Marker Drones aren't that very useful and a good source of markerlights when you think about it, the cost for one is equivalent of about 3 Pathfinders, two marker drones would be 5 pathfinders. The only difference is they are networked, which most of the time the unit that has it, needs it the least.

However, then you might argue Pathfinders has to buy a Devilfish. Simply, we just use it for someone else, firewarriors for an example. The only practical sources of markerlights is either them or units from Forge World, right now Tetras are the best whilst Remote Sensor Towers are a close second.

If you like to use the Stealth suits, a fun way to play with them would be equipping all 6 of them with drone controllers and you have extra 12 gun drones to harass people with by either infiltrate or outflank, not to mention they all benefit from the stealth generators. Yes, they are capable of being a harassing unit, but also a tank hunter unit (fusion blasters with Targeting Arrays) if you want to.

5. A shield generator is too expensive for what it does, you could say a shield drone is practically just a moving one that costs less, a gun drone could still do the same job with cover saves, failing a 'shield generator save' gives you no second chance to shoot again. Another problem with it is that it uses one support system which you could have twin-linked, add a Targetting Array or Multi-tracker. Besides drones, the other way to survive S8 and above shots is hiding behind terrain, this is what makes crisis suits annoying and a prime target to kill, because they can pop out to shoot and jump back behind terrains that block LoS entirely or something that will give you cover saves at least.

Like I said, weapon configuration is decided mainly on the role the suit plays. I myself have really bad dice rolls so there was one time I counted my suits as to all have twin-linked plasma rifles with targetting array, it is overkill in some cases whilst facing a slightly more numerical army will show it's limitations in their targeted units.

Nevertheless I'm by far from a competitive player, I just played and read a lot of stuff about Tau strategies, pros and cons. You will usually see a lot of fire warriors when I play (36 with me atm) from which people are saying they are the weakest basic troop choice among other armies, back in 5th ed. of course. I would rather play thematic armies or play a unit for the sake of that I have painfully built and painted them.

PS: Just keep in mind an upgrade or two could have mean another person holding another gun. Which is more useful is for you to decide, AFTER play-testing. See what kind of approach you want to and will have fun with.
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doc
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2000pts of greater good. Empty
PostSubject: Re: 2000pts of greater good.   2000pts of greater good. EmptySat Oct 20, 2012 11:19 am

Wow! That makes a lot of sense.
I will redo my list and start play-testing soon and will update on the progress.
Thank a million, bro.
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