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 Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]

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AznJake
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PostSubject: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:42 pm

I'm going to make a comprehensible 'list' of rules we are confused with, I realised there are still a number of them I didn't really read carefully which sometimes make or break a game.

Thanks Pax for sticking this thread.
You can contribute by raising a rule that people constantly gets wrong or rarely noticed, either in the Rulebook or Codexes.
If there are rules that at the end is open to possible interpretations, I won't put it on the list. It's up to an FAQ/Errata or your decision.

To start off, I'd point out some rules here and there and categorising them accordingly.

Movement

1. Moving through Difficult Terrain (2D6, pick highest) is different from Charging through Difficult terrain (3D6, pick two lowest).

Shooting

1. The shooting unit cannot allocate wounds on models that are out of LOS, any extra wounds will be lost.
2. Beam is a sub-type of witchfire, casting a beam power should mean using up your shooting attack limitation.

Assault

1. Characters must pile in first before other models in the unit, no staying at the back of your lackeys. [pg 63]
2. A unit can choose to fail Morale Check if it can't hurt the unit. [pg 26]
3. A unit can charge an non-vehicle unit it can't hurt. [FAQ, pg 20]
4. Rending wounds do not count as AP2 against vehicles. [FAQ]
5. Units that ignore terrain still suffer Initiative penalty when charging through terrain. [FAQ]
6. Units assaulting against a unit that is regrouping, still makes their charging move even if the assaulted unit fails it Ld test. [FAQ]

Challenges
- Pg 63~64
1. You don't choose the unit(s) you make a challenge to, ie. when you assault multiple units respectively.
2. When a challenge is issued, the opponent chooses his character from the unit(s) to fight, not the challenger.
3. Characters cannot be harmed after the challenge has ended while other combatants are still fighting.
4. Characters not within 2 inches of any model or themselves in B2B with enemies, cannot issue or accept challenges.

Special Rules
1. Jink can be activated even if the vehicle was immobolised [Lasts until it's next movement phase]. [pg 38]
2. Vector Strikes allocates wounds with 'Random Allocation'.
3. Vector Strikes are performed at the end of player's movement phase.
3. If the test of Hit & Run is passed, choose the direction and then roll 3D6.
4. Skyfire allows you to hit flyers AND skimmers at normal BS when you use it
5. Wounds from Blast/Large Blasts are allocated as for a normal shooting attack. [pg 33]
6. Wound allocation & cover saves from Barrage blasts are determined from the center of the blast marker. [pg 34]

Vehicles

1. Vehicles cannot overwatch, unless it's a Walker or Transport with firing points. [pg 76, 80, 84]
2. Units cannot assault any type of vehicles that they cannot even make a glancing hit. [pg 76]

Others

1. A model dies when its Strength, Wound or Toughness is reduced to 0.
2. Bikes, Calvary, Monstrous Creatures and all vehicle types except Skimmers cannot ENTER or MOVE in upper floors of Ruins. - This actually means you can put them there during deployment but can't move at all. [pg 98]
3. Gun Emplacements on the Aegis Defence Line cannot choose Automated Fire (Not a Building). [pg 96]
4. Independent Characters do not inherently have Skilled Rider or Move Through Cover USRs. (Oppose to 5th ed.)
5. Cover saves are not allowed from wounds caused by Vector Strikes.
6. After a unit regroups, it counts as having moved, cannot assault and can only fire snapshots, unless it has ATSKNF.


Last edited by AznJake on Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:48 pm; edited 24 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Sun Dec 30, 2012 5:43 pm

Codexes

Space Marine Chapters

1. When a Zooming Stormraven suffers an immobolised, wrecked or explosion, the Dreadnought embarked suffers a STR10 hit to its rear armour. Otherwise, it suffers a STR 4 to its rear armour.

Eldar

1. Fortune and Guide do not benefit Dark Eldars even if they are "Eldar".

Dark Eldar

1. Bladevanes wounds are allocated using 'Random Allocation'.

Grey Knight

1. Vindicare's 'Deadshot' allows the owning player to always allocate wounds, this means the opponent can pass a LO,S! and will still be allocated by the player with the Vindicare.

Necron

1. Whip coils do not affect models that are only B2B with Canoptek Wraiths after Pile-in moves are made.
2. The Tesla Arc from Tesla Destructors affect all units in sight and within 6" of the target, including flyers.

Tau Empire

1. Markerlights only benefit the Tau race.

Tyranids

1. Lash whips do not affect models that are only B2B after Pile-in moves are made.
2. Units deployed via Mycetic Spores are wholly placed within 6" of the Spore.


Last edited by AznJake on Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:15 pm; edited 5 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:13 pm

Walkers can Overwatch.

The Quad-Gun Emplacement cannot use the Automated Fire rule as it is not in a building.

Also, this one is a grey area. Nobody knows whether or not the Quad-Gun gives VP, checked this out for so long already.

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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:21 am

Quote :
Others

1. Bikes, Calvary, Monstrous Creatures and all vehicle types except Skimmers cannot ENTER or MOVE in upper floors of Ruins. - This actually means you can put them there during deployment but can't move at all.
I know this is true on them bikes and vehicles, but not the MCs or Cavalries or walkers. Can you show me the pages.

Something to add:
[Assault]
Characters not within 2 inches of any model in base contact, cannot issue or accept challenges.


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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:34 am

hard to type so much info using my phone. refer to Page 98...
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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:41 am

Thanks very much.
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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:07 am

This one is the cheesiest(I found out the hard way)

Jetbikes can move 1 inch and claim that they turbo boosted. The older rule clearly state that the model should be at least 18 inch away from point of origin to claim turbo boost. But the 6th ed never mentioned this.

So basically, your jetbikes can move about 12 inch and move back to almost to the point of origin and claim their jinx save. Also, if they carry cluster caltrops, they could drop them on the enemy models in this process.

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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:24 am

another cheese rule.

you can still get your 5+ jink save even if the vehicle was immo that turn.
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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:59 am

AznJake wrote:


1. Bikes, Calvary, Monstrous Creatures and all vehicle types except Skimmers cannot ENTER or MOVE in upper floors of Ruins. - This actually means you can put them there during deployment but can't move at all.


Oh hell no! Really? I now know how to defeat Thunderwolves hahaha!


It's kinda like them Dwarves running up the trees from the Wargs in The Hobbit!
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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:54 am

Added Alvin and Doc's suggestions.

Quote :
Something to add:
[Assault]
Characters not within 2 inches of any model in base contact, cannot issue or accept challenges.

Sorry but if I'm reading correctly from the rule, the bolded sentence, 'To issue a challenge, nominate a character in one of your units locked in the combat to be the challenger.'

"Lock in Combat" can be found defined under 'Who Can Fight?' (pg. 23), and I quote, 'Units that have one or more models in base contact with enemies are locked in combat.'

Hence a whole unit is considered to be locked in combat if just one or more models is in B2B with enemy units. The following paragraphs there is just to clarify which models that can actually roll dice to attack.

If not, then the rule which allows you to swap the 'Challenger' or 'Challengee' with friendly models to as close as possible with each other would not make sense (pg. 64 - Fighting a Challenge).

Quote :
So basically, your jetbikes can move about 12 inch and move back to almost to the point of origin and claim their jinx save. Also, if they carry cluster caltrops, they could drop them on the enemy models in this process.

I think you're saying about the +1 extra to Cover Save, Jink activates when you just move in the movement phase.

Concerning the Bladevanes, I don't think you can define the starting and ending points of 'a line' to be same, although I can't argue that the line has to be straight. In any case, not relevant to the topic and has been discussed about some time ago.
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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:07 am

Oh.. that is a direct quote from the rulebook eh. If so, then you are right. I must have misread is as "nominate a character locked in the combat to be the challenger". I'll have another read tonight to make sure.

Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Mon Dec 31, 2012 8:25 am

I believe that only guys from an open-topped vehicle can Overwatch, those with firing points cannot. Do check, too lazy to do so now. Hahaha.

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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:28 pm

Nah, all transport vehicles with firing points can overwatch - Pg 80, Transports and Assaults.
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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:36 pm

Quote :
Quote:
Something to add:
[Assault]
Characters not within 2 inches of any model in base contact, cannot issue or accept challenges.


Sorry but if I'm reading correctly from the rule, the bolded sentence, 'To issue a challenge, nominate a character in one of your units locked in the combat to be the challenger.'

"Lock in Combat" can be found defined under 'Who Can Fight?' (pg. 23), and I quote, 'Units that have one or more models in base contact with enemies are locked in combat.'

Hence a whole unit is considered to be locked in combat if just one or more models is in B2B with enemy units. The following paragraphs there is just to clarify which models that can actually roll dice to attack.

If not, then the rule which allows you to swap the 'Challenger' or 'Challengee' with friendly models to as close as possible with each other would not make sense (pg. 64 - Fighting a Challenge).
I have relook at the rules, it seems that I was right all a long. You only read the bolded sentence Jake. But there's more to the rules. Read further and you'll find a sentence mentioning that unenganged characters cannot issue challenge. Who is unengaged, is shown in a diagram at page 23 --> any models not within 2 inch from models in B2B.
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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:17 pm

You are indeed correct. Though in the practical sense, I like to add that the chances of that happening is slim unless it is a blob of Orks or IG, most people here uses MEQ armies which is just around 5 to 10 models per unit.
Unless it is deliberate, but that just means there's one less power weapon to worry about.

Considering the longer charge distance in 6th ed. and added pile in moves to make (characters does it ASAP), you need to be at least 6" away from the heat of the battle to not be able to issue one, and the player that wants to issue it will make sure of it.

Anyhow, adding it.
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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:00 pm

Though a bit hard to do, it is very usefull Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:22 pm

FAQ just updated and I've added a few confirmations in. Suggest anything you notice would be something people usually don't.

Vindicare's Deadshot had been clarified, you still allocates wounds even if your opponent pass LO,S!.

There's one QNA I'm not quite certained yet.

Q: When making a Shooting attack against a unit, can Wounds
from the Wound Pool be allocated to models that were not within
range any of the shooting models when To Hit rolls were made (i.e.
half the targeted model are in the shooting models’ range, and half
are not)? (p15)
A: No.

In my opinion, it's likely to apply to rules that allows you to allocate wounds by your choosing, ie. Precision Shots and LO,S!.
If I'm correct, it basically states you can't allocate wounds to models that are out of range when there are still models in range (and of course in sight). Or else to rule "Out of Range" would be contradicted since it tells you that you can allocate wounds from the wound pool after there are only models out of the weapon's range.

Spoiler:
 
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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:47 am

Yay! Some new FAQ that benefit us World Eaters!!! Smile

Q: If Khârn the Betrayer rolls a 1 To Hit in close combat and
subsequently re-rolls this roll of a 1 due to his Hatred Incarnate
Warlord Trait, does the original roll of a 1 still count for the
purposes of inflicting hits on friendly models due to The Betrayer
special rule?
A: No.


We can re-roll the 1 from his hatred rolls and if not 1 again, will not kill his own ppl.


Page 43 – Special Rules, Vector Strike.
Change the second paragraph to read “When Swooping, this
model may savage its prey. At the end of the Movement Phase,
nominate one unengaged enemy unit the model has moved
over that turn. This unit may even be an enemy Flyer. That unit
takes D3+1 hits, resolved at the model’s unmodified Strength
and AP3, using Random Allocation. Against vehicles, these hits
are resolved against the target’s side armour. No cover saves are
allowed against these hits.”

Q: How do I determine the Arc of Sight for a Heldrake’s ranged
weapon? (p52)
A: Treat the Heldrake’s ranged weapon as a Turret Mounted
Weapon, measuring all ranges from the edge of the Heldrake’s
base nearest to the target unit.


Suddenly Heldrake got a lot more powerful. First it can vector strike you in cover, and you don't get any cover saves. After that it can fire 360 after vector striking the unit. AWESOME! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:12 am

Dr-DOOOM!!! wrote:

Suddenly Heldrake got a lot more powerful. First it can vector strike you in cover, and you don't get any cover saves. After that it can fire 360 after vector striking the unit. AWESOME! Very Happy

Now I know how Heldrake fly, it spin it neck 360 degree like a helicopter instead of flapping it's wings.

ps: (I suspect it's name is a misspelled helidrake, wait a minute.... helbrute... can it fly by swinging it's powerfists too??!! cool! finally the first flying walker in game!)
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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:22 am

Lol. Yes, the Heldrake got that much scarier now. But it makes more sense, frankly
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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:13 pm

Ahem, based on the discussions in other forums, that particular FAQ I mentioned has change quite a bit on wound allocation in relation to the weapon's range. However, the general consensus is it opens a can of worms in other areas.


Wounds from a shooting attack cannot be allocated to models if the weapons are out of range when To Hit rolls are made. Basically it's now Out of Range and/or Out of Sight = No wound allocation.

Two conflicting interpretations but both changes the "Out of Range" rule now.

An example to illustrate, a squad of tactical marines have a model with equipped with missile launcher is shooting at a unit of 10 Orks.

Only five of them are within range of bolters but the missile launcher can hit all of the Orks.

1. Wounds can be allocated to all of the Orks because the maximum range of the squad is 48". Because RAW, FAQ suggests any models to be in range.

2. Wounds from bolters (24") can only be allocated to the five Orks, whilst the missile launcher's wound can be allocated to all of them. Because RAI, it will only make sense this way.

The implications of this would have us consider the effects on Rapid fire weapons (shooting twice or once), Flamer template weapons (only up to the end of the template).
Blasts are not affected because their scatter rule allows it allocate to anyone (Ricochet).
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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:02 am

I had a quick glance at the core rules FAQ. Just a few things I find important:

i. Rending is not AP2 for Armour Penetration
ii. We can assault enemy unit that we cannot hurt
iii. Unit that ignores terrain (eg. : beast, wraiths) when moving or charging, still have to fight at Initiative 1 if charging through terrain.
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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:42 pm

LordAK wrote:

ii. We can assault enemy unit that we cannot hurt

Only non-vehicle units, you still can't intentionally assault vehicles if you can't even glance them. It's because the FAQ only mentions page 20 where it doesn't affect the rule at page 76 which concerns units charging vehicles.

Added them with some changes.
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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Sun Jan 27, 2013 5:31 pm

Things that I noticed from Dann v/s Subhan's game yesterday were:

1). regarding MCs getting cover sv. Now, MCs are treated as any other non-vehicle models whether they can benefit from cover svs.

Thus, as long as they are behind intervening models, or behind/in terrains, they can get cover svs. They don't have to be at least 25% covered in order to be eligible for the cover sv at all - that rule is for vehicles only.


2). Ruins give 4+ cover, not 5+.


3). Tesla Arc (the side-effect of Tesla Destructors) can affect Flyers within 6" of the target.

To those fielding Cron-Airs, make sure your flying croissants stay at least 7" away..it'd be damn shameful to loose hull-points from your own Tesla Arcs bwahaha!!
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PostSubject: Re: Rules You Get Wrong [6th Ed.]   Sun Jan 27, 2013 6:10 pm

1. Yes, all non-vehicle models follow the same cover save rule. However, you're wrong regarding how models get cover save.

- They get cover saves if their body are 25% obscured by intervening models or terrain.
- They get cover saves when they are in terrain.
- Each model in a unit may or may not have cover saves, ie. some are in terrain while some are not.
- Hence there's no getting cover saves for the whole unit from having one model in terrain, or the majority of the unit is obscured or something like that sort.

2. The upper floors of ruins give you 4+ cover save, the ground floor depends on whether you have a base attached to it. With base it's area terrain (5+) and when going to ground you get +2 instead of +1, without base it's open ground so no cover save at all.

3. I'll add this.
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