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 A Proposal For Knockout Tourney

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LordAK
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PostSubject: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:30 pm

This is my proposal for a knockout tourney, just to fill our time and find out who is the most badass among us in a given time.
 
The format:
40k is a very complicated game, I think theres no point making it more complicated. So the format is going to be very simple.

  • The Knockout Tourney (KOT) will only involve 16 player. I wont bother with a league coz that takes too much time. 16 players, based purely on 1st come 1st serve;
  • TO will randomly select the 1st round pairing and the winner will straightaway move to the next round --> quarter final.
  • Once pairing was known, players are free to plan when and where they fight. The winner will report to the TO about the result. This will proceed until we find out the champ.
  • The Champion will gain full bragging rights until the next KO tourney + RM50 (by me) for buying more silly wargaming stuffs. Summore if permitted by Alvin, a glorious poster of the champ will decorate the hall of Hobby Forge (just like Richard did back then when he put a poster for my WE, damn proud though I'm not the winner Smile)
  • If everything goes well, I'll make this a quarterly event so everyone can try grab that spot next time.

 
Notes:

  • All mini must be WYSIWYG and no Proxy nor Count As will be allowed except for unit that has no model yet produced by GW;
  • Fully painted is the best, but not mandatory. The limit is 50%. Less than that, go back home and paint some more;
  • FW (40k approved only) + Supplement will be allowed but players must bring original copy of the rulebook that contain rules for that particular unit or Army.

 
Tourney Special Rule:
This tourney is to find out the best player of all. And so must be supported by the best troops offered to them. I really like the 6th Ed. But there is currently no internal balance between CC and Shooty based armies. There is one rule that I find very stupid and counter-intuitive. A rule that is slowly killing the game. So here I would like to propose a house rule for The Silly Disembarkment Rules :
The 6th transport rules are very bad making the 6th Ed biased towards the Shooty type of list. So bad that it kills off certain unit/army from the game. How often do you see BA Rhino Rush these days, or the Howling Banshees, or the Berserkers, or any other CC based unit/armies (other than Flying Monster Circus) on table and performing well? Sad..
 
So for this Tourney, we still follow all the disembarkment rules but with small change --> Units may assault after disembarking from stationary vehicles (or after vehicle wreck/explodes result) provided the transport did not perform a Flat Out move  during their previous movement phase. Assault Vehicle works as normal
 
That is the one rule that I will change. No more.

If agree then maybe can brush up a bit before we proceed. Questions or anything I overlook?
 
What say you guys? TBH, I don't care much for competitive gaming anymore so don't really bother if this didn't take place. But this could be fun, so why not?
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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:51 pm

1). Finally, somebody is brave enuff to formally suggest such event & to sponsor some measure of reward. I hope this proposal will receive due consideration from the local players as well as the club/store owners cuz we'd be needing to use their place, tables & terrains for the event.

2). Then, for this time round, for promotion sakes, i'd suggest that there'd be no entry fees. Most who hasn't participate in KO-type tournament normally complains the risk-inherent nature of the event i.e once you lose, you are out of the game permanently.

But if you look at the standard tournament practice of common sports event in Malaysia, this practice is commonly used to make a smooth event. E.g: district/state/national level school competitions for football/ volleyball/ ping pong/ basketball/ badminton/ tennis/ debate...etc.

From my perspective, current local tournament setting doesn't give incentive or reward those who wants to play competitively. In fact, for those who play aggressively & competitively, or play by the rules as accurate as he could be, would be 'punish' with poor sportsmanship score by his opponent.

I've seen this happening times & times again. Hence, this KO-tournament is an alternative avenue for players to let loose from the 'threat' of the sportsmanship restriction & play to their hearts content. If you are good enuff, you'd advance. If you lose, pls don't complain & accept your defeat graciously.      

3). If we have good turn-outs, then, for the 2nd KO tournament (if there's any), maybe we can start collecting RM5 per participant. The collection will then be 100% used to be given either as prize money or store credit.    

4). If Alvin allows it, then maybe we can have the event takes place at H-Forge. With 4 tables available, I'm sure we can finish the preliminary rounds on Day 1 (Saturday) - 2 rounds of 8 players each & games must be finished within 2hours dice-down rules.

The subsequent rounds for the 8 qualifiers, the best 4, & the top 2 finalists must be finished on Day 2 (Sunday). There's no point delaying the games. Everything must be officially held at the store to make the players feel the heat of the tournament.

5). Since the terrains at H-Forge are quite limited, maybe AK & I will bring some terrains that we have at AK's home to make the tables much nicer.

6). Painting: This is no compromise. Must be painted minimum 3-colours.

7). The rest, I agree.

Hopefully this proposal will receive good response from the local players, especially when the entry fee is free.
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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:47 am

Sounds like fun actually. I like the idea that it's a very informal KO tourney which players can choose own time and venue. Almost like FA. In the right spirit, it's nice and casual and fun. I would suggest having the armies fully painted as per normal tourney standards - they make nicer pictures. Also would suggest to use rules as is. But hey, you're the TO, so it is up to you Smile I'd play
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LordAK
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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:19 am

Thanks for the support Bro Spunkybass. Forgot to mention. Since I'm the TO, I won't be playing. So there's one empty spot over there.
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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:09 am

Great work.....but....
I beg to disagree with this rule "Units may assault after disembarking from stationary vehicles (or after vehicle wreck/explodes result) provided the transport did not perform a Flat Out move during their previous movement phase. Assault Vehicle works as normal"

Because as per my understanding, units that disembarks from a enclosed capsule of a rhino do not know where the enemy is when they disembark. Same goes with units that deep stike, drop pod or teleport into a battle. As for as open top vehicle, units can see the enemy beforehand, thus they can assault.
Only exception is for a Land Raider, where units can foresee the location of the enemy before disembarkation maybe due to 'Power of the machine spirit' Maybe a higher being lets them 'see' the enemy beforehand.

I think this is what GW want us to experience, a marine coming out of an exploded vehicle is not prepared to assault in split second....the maximum he can do is to fire his gun. Of course we can see the enemy but from the marine's point of view, he wouldn't know what hit him.

Just my understanding.....

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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:03 am

I dont care what GW think. That rule might be good in movies, but not for gaming balance.

I'm more concern with the death of almost all CC based units like Howling Banshees, Berserkers, Death Co etc. In result, keeping themed list away from being competitive.

Try dulu lah. Maybe you'll come to love it.
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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:25 pm

It is all in the intention to even out the playing field between shooty and CC armies.
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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:27 pm

Mungkin nak revenge kat paxter la ni...kena tembak kaw2 kot.

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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:52 pm

I won't be playing and never fought Paxter.

But yeah.. It comes from own experience of hopelessness fighting shooty armies.
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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:23 pm

I remember getting shot by Alvin's DE. I was using my Orks and they didn't even get to cross the midline. I can understand how you feel.

So how about the deepstriking units? Can they assault also?
Please also review the drop pod units and also teleporting units.
If you want to justify, then assault should work for all these units also, right?

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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:08 pm

Deepstrike units charging is not cool. There is a damn good reason GW does not allow that. The transport rule is fine with me but charging out of a blown up rhino is quite a feat.. initiative test maybe if fail they cant charge that turn? And I agree should be fully painted im a slow painter but if your going for hardcore why stop at allowing non painted armies.
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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:12 pm

There's a separate rule that covers deep striking units not being able to assault on the turn they arrive. Assaulting out of transports is a different rule altogether. I'm good with modifying the rule for this event (as I will be largely unaffected by it, no matter which army I choose). My only advice is to take careful consideration about how you word the rule and its limitations.
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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:18 pm

If deep striking/dpod lets u charge the same turn you enter, then the event seriously favours marines.
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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:20 pm

Yea like only ground transport vehicles, etc im fine with it n will play your event if I were u talk to jeff maybe this could be done at legio.
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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:33 pm

Drop pods, deepstrikers and units coming from reserves stay the same. They are totally different cases.

The reason I put painting at 50% is to encourage purchase of New units.
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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:17 pm

@AK: my 2 cents Smile

1. no doubt you have given the house rule much consideration but in an attempt not to complicate rules, you already did. i would suggest playing with the rules as-is. that assaulting out of transport house rule, while it looks simple on the onset, changes the gaming environment dynamically. if you really want to use it, i would suggest you test it out in real gaming extensively (with actual opponent and not with yourself). things that look great in theory may not be so in a real gaming environment.

2. if it is intended to be an 'Ard Boyz tourney and all that matters is the end result, scrape the 50% percent painting rule or the 3 colors minimum. the tourney is to find a bad-ass player. not to make them buy more stuff.

3. if i may suggest, the TO should make the missions similar at each round for fairness.

it will be great if this happen, at least for those who wants to play competitively and can't seem to get good soft scores.

2 thumbs up for me!!! Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:41 pm

Another way around is the dual mission format they have been playing that in the states for a number of tournaments basically you got capture the relic and objectives on table. That does balance it a little. And removing first blood, 6th ed is an objectives game. From what I see it feels like this proposed tourney rewards power death star, min troops MEQ.. many will be turned off by that.

My 2 cents worth la
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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:55 pm

I still think your Tau will taupau the cc armies, even with the house rule Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:13 pm

Lol nonsense, anyway regardless of what happens I wanna offer my help to do your record keeping for you. I wanna still play tho.
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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Wed Aug 28, 2013 8:32 pm

To avoid minimal Troops (eeeps..there goes my 100pts Troops), maybe we can enforce a certain min % for the Troops in the army composition.

Perhaps: Troops => min. 35%.
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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:40 am

Strange for me to say this, but if the intent of the tourney is more like and 'ard boyz kill em all and lets see who's the baddest ass general, then a troops minimum requirement doesn't seem to be necessary. Having said that I know my army wouldbe largely unchanged (large portion of troops), as usual Smile
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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Thu Aug 29, 2013 5:06 am

1. There wont be any restriction on troops or any other slot.
 
2. On painting. I love painting and hate to see my lovingly painted armies got thrashed by some random unpainted armies. Recalling experience in GC. Zero painting requirements will have adverse effect on players. They just don't paint. So why just 50%? It is just to give some chance for people to go get the models they wanted to add to their existing armies and play them in short order.
 
For Example: My WE have been suffering a lot in 6th. So I'm going the easy way and go grab 2 more Hells Turkey. But even now, I haven't finish my 1st Turkey (low morale, time, family), thus holding me back from getting them though I have the resources for it. I'm sure some of you guys share the same problem.
 
3. Missions. I somewhat agree with Yip. In fact for several years in GC, every day was High Level Annihilation, Pitch Battle (6th Mission, 4th ed) Laughing. But now I think a SUPER BADASS PLAYER should be SUPER BADASS in whatever mission thrown at them. Don't you agree?
 
4. All help is much appreciated. Thanks Pax.
 
5. What should we call this? Any cool names?
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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:25 am

Well, no min restsrictions mean there shouldn't be any complain later on right?

Btw, if we can have Legio's cooperation, I'm sure we can finish every single game even until the final match in just 1 day.

AND, we can simply call it:-
1. Legio's 1st Knock-out Tournament (if the event can be held in Legio)
2. Legio 'Ardboyz KO Tournament (again, if it's in Legio)
3. Hobby Forge Knock-out Tournament (If it's in HF)
4. Hobby Forge 'Ardboyz KO Tournament (again, if it's in Legio)

About unpainted models, maybe we can use penalty system whereby in cases of drawn matches, the side with unpainted models will lose the game. Thus, for those with unpainted models, they would have no options but to win all the way.

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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Thu Aug 29, 2013 6:31 am

Ala, WE TO kan, and KO no-mercy style kan?
Call it Throne of Skulls, or Mountain of Bones, or Sea of Blood, those type la. Brutal, not subtle and quite to the point Very Happy

I'm leaning towards more painted than non-painted. It's so disheartening to fight plastic or black-coated armies. Or worse, more than 50% proxied armies, especially in a tourney/campaign/mega battle scenario.

I'll let the TO solve the missions portion Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: A Proposal For Knockout Tourney   Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:02 am

How bout this on the painting issue.

If you wanna play half painted minis its ok but we put in a special judging prize for those with painted minis. Say an lone wolf army builder program for the winner and maybe the top 5 gets a framed plaque like kindred. That way those who paint do get rewarded for their effort and in an instance of a draw the painted army wins.

If your that hardcore and have grey troops you should had more time to craft your brutality thru more games vs someone who took time to paint and less game time.
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