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 Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850

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MrChaos
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PostSubject: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:12 am

Hey folks, after the tournament I am pretty fired up to start a Space Marine army. And a timely arrival too for the Sentinels of Terra supplement. It's time to restart my Imperial Fist army that I started at 2006.


Chapter Tactics: Imperial Fist Close range Bolter Drill and Siege Masters (Reroll all bolt weapons when in half-range and tank hunters for Devastators and Centurions)  

HQ
Captain Lysander

Chaplain
-Teeth of Terra
-Digital Weapons


No slot
x5 Command Squad
x5 Meltaguns

Drop Pod


Troops
9x Marine
1 Flamer
Sergeant
-Combi Flamer

Drop Pod


4x Marine
1 Heavy Bolter
Sergeant
-Storm Bolter


Drop Pod


5x Scouts
5x Sniper Rifles
5x Camo Cloaks


Elites
6x Assault Terminators (Lysander & Chaplain)
6x Thunderhammers & Stormshields

Land Raider Crusader
-Multi-Melta


Heavy Support
Thunderfire Cannon


3x Centurions
3x Twin-linked Lascannons
3x Chest mounted Missile Launchers
Omniscope

1850


I have yet to try this list out, but please give me your feedback. Smile


Edited
-Added Command Squad with Meltaguns
-Added Digital Weapons on Chaplain
-Switch Flamers to Heavy Bolter and Storm Bolter on 5 man squad Marines.


Last edited by MrChaos on Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:25 am; edited 3 times in total
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LordAK
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:33 am

Flamers are odd choice for units coming in by Drop Pod. I would expect Meltas or Gravs.

The 2nd Tactical squad is just 5 men so better suicide squad with 2 Meltaguns and send them down in the 1st turn.

Now the Centurions with Lasscannon and missiles is 280 points. That is equal to 2 Tri-Lasscannon Predators. Both also got pro and cons and Preds don't get the benefit of Chapter Tactics.
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:00 pm

LordAK wrote:
Flamers are odd choice for units coming in by Drop Pod. I would expect Meltas or Gravs.

The 2nd Tactical squad is just 5 men so better suicide squad with 2 Meltaguns and send them down in the 1st turn.

Now the Centurions with Lascannon and missiles is 280 points. That is equal to 2 Tri-Lasscannon Predators. Both also got pro and cons and Preds don't get the benefit of Chapter Tactics.
I was thinking of a 10 man squad of Marines with a flamer and combi-flamer on the sergeant. Drop on the largest concentration of infantry, burn and dakka away using the close range bolter drill tactic. (Reroll all hits) The squad must be able to wipe the enemy in one volley, hench the flamers. Can also split to combat squad to burn and dakka multiple targets.

As for the 5man, it is used to Drop-Pod near an objective for the 5 man to hold out. Hench why I include a Heavy Bolter on a marine and a Storm Bolter on the sergeant.

I like the Centurions manly because of the Tank Hunter tactics. I can't find anything to remove to add more Centurions.

All this sounds good on paper, but on practice it's a different story.
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:11 pm

gotta give it a try to see if it works. I say try la the flamer first see if your tactic on paper works or not.
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LordAK
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:28 pm

You can try first lar. Bolter Drill is good, but the difficult part was rolling to wound and to get through that armour.

Just sharing my experience with Bolter Drill (back when Lysander has it), I put Lysander with 10 man Sternguards with 2 Heavy Flamers. They drop near the enemy and Bolter Drill with Hellfire Rounds (back then can still do this), syok.. but only 4-5 casualties. Lucky Lysander is such a monster he ended killing everything nearby by himself hahaha..

Quote :
I like the Centurions manly because of the Tank Hunter tactics.
I thought so.. If you like it, then proceed Smile

Here is one setup to make use of the Tank Hunter skills. You take a unit of Devastators and let them man a Quadgun. That is just 170 pts that can greatly help you deal with light armour and Flyers.
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:51 pm

I was playing with Dominique's Dark Angels the other day and was utterly trashed. Even though I seized the initiative and got first blood, the sniper scouts, Thunderfire cannon and Devastators Centurions were not doing much.

Dominique's army consists of 4 Black Knights and a Librarian on bike a Dreadnought, 5 Drop Pods with, 3x 10 man tac squad, 1x Veterans with 5 Meltas, a Mortis Dread, and Belial deepstriking.

So with me stealing the initiative I manage to drop behind his lines, nuke his first Dread (First Blood) with the melta commands, and tried to dakka the Bikes with the 10 man tac squad with 2 flamers. The result, only 2 losses from the bikes because of T5 and good saves from Dom.

He then proceed to drop 2 tac squads of 10 man marines with plasma on my tac squad and command squad which ate them both up with bolter and plasma shots. And Belial arrived right behind my Thunderfire and scouts. He also drops the 5 man melta vets which blew up my Land Raider Crusader carrying Lysander and his Thunder Termies.

The next few rounds goes with his tac squads footslogging from one end of the table to other. (Deployment was Hammer & Anvil so yeah, pretty long) Belial detaches and charges the Scouts while the Thunder termies charge the Techmarine. This was pretty much doom for my dudes.

I dropped my 5 man tac squad near an objective but was countered by the Mortis Dreadnought the next turn which flamed them to a crisp.

At the end it was only the Centurions and Lysander with 3 Termies and the Chaplain left. With that we wanted to end with an epic battle so Dom's Belial challenged Lysander which he gladly accept, and the result was having Belial flying back to the bosom of Lion El'Jonson arms.

With that I need to rethink my list and perhaps remove the Centurions. Too high cost and did too little.
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:40 am

i just think is just a bad match up. Dom's DA is reliant on alpha strike drop pod style. so it would be more advantageous vs shooty armies.

try playing a few more games with the current army of yours and then only consider rethinking your list. you would then know what is lacking or powerful in your list. if you change just after 1 game, your next game might regret not having something in your original list. Just need to find the balance where you can have mobility, shooting, assault and even psychic (if you want).
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:01 am

To me, the only setup that makes Centurion worth their points is Gravcannon+Amp. Take Missile Launcher if you want but I prefer Hurricane Bolters.
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:11 am

Come come... test against my new Daemon list. Smile

You will then feel like you need to include a psyker for psychic defense. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:43 am

Just a suggestion to your list:

Lysander
Command Squad | 5 Meltaguns
- Drop Pod | Deathwind Launcher

Chaplain in TArmour | Teeth of Terra
6 Terminators | TH&SS
- Land Raider Crusader | Multi-Melta

10 man Tactical | Flamer, CFlamer
- Drop Pod | Deathwind Launcher
5 man Tactical | HBolter
- Drop Pod
5 Nipers | Camo

Thunderfire Cannon
3 man Centurions | Gravcannons+Amp

and no.. don't fight Joe yet Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:59 am

yea man if you fight joe u might be dishearten and dun want to play lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:00 am

but joe is a good general tho that does give advice to his opponents. He help me alot in terms of gaming. just that u kena tahan the kena belasah part la lol
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:04 am

Joe is very sporting, but against his new list sure kena belasah kaw-kaw hahaha
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:34 am

don't say like that. we just test our army lists and learn from each other nia ma. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:33 am

I am leaning either on to Imperial Fists or Salamanders. If I choose Salamanders the conversion possibilities are fun.

Here's a list I work out.

Salamanders 1850

Chapter Tactics (Salamanders)

Command Squad (Vulkan and Libby attaches)
-x4 Meltaguns
-x4 Storm Shields
-x4 Thunder Hammers
-Standard of the Emperor Ascendant
-Apothecary

Drop Pod


HQ

Vulkan He'Stan, Forgefather


Librarian
-Auspex
-Mastery lvl 2
-The Shield Eternal
-Power Sword


Troops

x9 Tactical Marines
-Sergeant
-Combi-melta
-Meltagun

Drop Pod

x9 Tactical Marines
-Sergeant
-Combi-melta
-Meltagun

Drop Pod

x9 Tactical Marines
-Sergeant
-Combi-melta
-Meltagun

Drop Pod

Heavy Support

8x Devastators Squad
-Sergeant
-4x lascannons

8x Devastators Squad
-Sergeant
-4x lascannons

Thunderfire Cannon


Total:1847
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:36 am

salamanders la bro, done right they will really look nice.
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:49 am

Don't take the Standard of Emperor Ascendant unless you want it for art project. That is 100 points of no good spending.
 
Now you have 4 Drop Pods in your list.
The 1st two to drop will be the Command Squad and a Tactical unit with Meltagun. Both are great can opener with TL-meltaguns.
But the next two. Good time to try out flamers since they can reroll to wound with flamers.
 
OR you can do Ally Fist/S'mander.
 
Primary : Salamander
Vulkan
Command Squad | 4 Meltaguns, SShield, Apoth
- Drop Pod
10 man Tactical | Flamer, CFlamer
- Drop Pod
10 man Tactical | Flamer, CFlamer
- Drop Pod
 
Ally : IFist
Libby
9 man Tactical | Meltagun, CMelta
- Drop Pod
8 Devastators | 4 Lasscannons
8 Devastators | 4 Lasscannons
 
Fort : Aegis Defence Line -- replace Standard of Emperor Ascendant
 
It is the same as your list, but getting the best of both Chapter Tactics.
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:52 am

Silap.. you cannot take 2 Devs for ally so you swap lah.. make the IF as Primary.
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:38 am

Thx LordAK. A bit tamak if I want to take Vulkan and Lysander together.

So Sentinels of Terra ally with SM Salamanders detachment. But who is my Warlord? Primary Detachment only can be my Warlord and if Vulkan is Ally, no master crafted Meltas.
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Thu Nov 28, 2013 11:33 am

Ohh Vulkan's ability only work if he is a Warlord ah? I dont know about that restriction.
 
Since you have 2 Devs, then taking SoTerra as primary is a must. Unless you wanna drop one Devs squad for something else.
 
Maybe the 4th Tactical squad in Drop Pod so you have 3 Drops in the 1st turn..
OR another Melta Command Squad in Pods
OR Lysander heheh..
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:53 pm

Sentinels of Terra allows me to take Devastator Centurions as Elites. So I can fit more Lascannons in my secondary detachment.


Primary Detachment: Codex Space Marines


Chapter Tactics (Salamanders)

Command Squad (Vulkan and Libby attaches)
-x4 Meltaguns
-x4 Storm Shields
-x4 Thunder Hammers
-Apothecary

Drop Pod


HQ

Vulkan He'Stan, Forgefather


Troops

x9 Tactical Marines
-Sergeant
-Combi-melta
-Meltagun

Drop Pod

x9 Tactical Marines
-Sergeant
-Combi-melta
-Meltagun

Drop Pod


Heavy Support

Thunderfire Cannon



Allied Detachment: Sentinels of Terra


Chapter Tactics (Imperial Fists)

HQ
Librarian
-Auspex
-Mastery lvl 2
-The Shield Eternal
-Power Sword

Troops

x9 Tactical Marines
-Sergeant
-Combi-flamer
-Flamer

Drop Pod


Elites
-x3 Devastators Centurions
-x3 Twin-linked Lascannons
-x3 Chest mounted Missile Launchers
Omniscope


Heavy Support

7x Devastators Squad
-Sergeant
-4x lascannons


Total:1847

What's a good Psychic Discipline for the Libby? I was thinking either Pyromancy Primaris (Flame Breath) or Telepathy Primaris (Psychic Shriek) or unless I roll 5 on that discipline (invisiblity) which I can cast on the Command Squad with Thunder Hammers.
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:13 pm

Cent as elite is good!

That is super expensive command squad!
Modeling wise may look cool, but I'm very much against it. Better to give them all meltabombs.

Problem is units cannot ride allied transport. So Libby can't join the command drop pod.
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Fri Nov 29, 2013 6:49 am

Thx LordAK, I missed out that allies can't board ally transport.

Generally I'm aiming more towards the painting side presentation of this army but still remain playable and slightly competitive.
I build a list consist of both Lysander and Vulkan He'Stan, as the Salamanders Chapter Tactic allows each characters (Space Marine Sergeants) to upgrade his weapon to master-crafted for no additional cost.

So my SM sergeant with the Chapter Tactic: Salamanders can have a master-crafted combi melta. Rerolling the one bolter and melta shot.


Sally's of Terra

Primary Detachment: Sentinels of Terra

Chapter Tactics (Imperial Fists)


HQ
Captain Darnath Lysander (Warlord)


Elites
x5 Assault Terminators (Lysander here!)
x5 Thunderhammers & Stormshields


Troops
x9 Tactical Marines
x1 Sergeant with Combi-Flamer
-Flamer

Drop Pod
-Homing Beacon

x9 Tactical Marines
x1 Sergeant with Combi-Flamer
-Flamer

Drop Pod
-Homing Beacon


Heavy Support
x5 Devastator Marines
x1 Sergeant
x4 Lascannnons


Allied Detachment: Codex Space Marines

Chapter Tactics: Salamanders

No Slot
Command Squad (Vulkan inside!)
x5 Meltaguns

Drop Pod

HQ
Vulkan He'Stan


Troops
x9 Tactical Marines
x1 Sergeant with Combi-Melta
x1 Meltagun

Drop Pod

x9 Tactical Marines
x1 Sergeant with Combi-Melta
x1 Meltagun

Drop Pod

Heavy Support
Thunderfire Cannon

Total: 1849

Ouch I realised I have to paint at least 50 Space Marines. Razz


Last edited by MrChaos on Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:38 am

Looking at your new list. I think better Salamander as Primary since you have only one IF Devastators, can fit the ally slot nicely.
By taking Vulkan as Warlord, all your meltaguns are now twinlinked. So you can mastercraft something else instead Smile
 
What is your plan for Lysander? Deepstrike? I think it is best that he drops with one of the Tactical squads in turn 1. Scary shit lar this guy.
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PostSubject: Re: Imperial Fists / Salamanders 1850   Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:56 am

Hmm, I do like Lysander as Warlord though, the challenge and D3 VP + Slay the Warlord VP is quite cool.

There are 2 options:

1) I'm still deciding to take Termies or not. If Lysander and his thunder termies Deep Strikes, he can only do so on Turn 2, split from the termi squad and then spend that turn digging his nose. Then only he and his termies can start doing stuff on Turn 3, that is assuming he comes in Turn 2.

2) If I choose to attach him to a Tac squad, then I can drop on the first turn, split them up, dig his nose, and yell 'Leeeeroy Jeeenkins!' on Turn 2 as he charges or get charged.

With option 2 I can remove the thunder Termies and get more Devastator marines with Lascannons.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...



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