What do you see in 10 years?

In 10 years.. I see me and my kids rolling dices in my hobby room

This is a good hobby. But for some (I think for most Malaysians), it is an expensive hobby bordering into unhealthy in terms of spending and it isn't gonna be any cheaper in 10 years to come.

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If you want to expand the passion prob start small say get a few ppl together n maybe a store/game group to support you and have some exhibition matches at public places like the market at jaya 1, or some mall that offer free spaces to hobbies n arts (publika).

Maybe join some expo or Himpunan Sejuta Belia every year. Of course that will incur some cost so establish a fund for it (Staffing would be voluntary of course). I think I can drop in RM5 per visit to HForge/Legio. My ex-staff do it (with own money) to promote his arts, now he made about RM15k sales per month.

Being one of the guys who created, organised and promoted Warmachine Malaysia, and also after alot of observations on local WM and 40k crowd behaviour, I have alot of opinions on why some commonly thought strategies to promote this hobby does not work. I also have lots of opinions on how to promote things further after considering the above statement. However, I will save that for another topic. What I want to talk is what I see in tabletop wargaming 10 years into the future from a Warmachine player's point of view!

1) WH40k growing
- One who is fluent in the tabletop scene cannot deny that WH40k is the most played tabletop game in the market now. With popular hotspots like Legio, Hobby Forge, and an increased usage of social media wargamers around Malaysia are more connected than ever.

2) Warmachine/Hordes community grows larger
- The Warmachine community is growing. Like other other gaming systems, it does have its "hot times" and "low lights" unfortunately. Currently, the community expanding slowly due to various reasons. However with the introduction of social media and a few key promotional events, the awareness of the game keeps increasing. In 10years time, I predict the community will grow and compete WH40k standards in terms of numbers playing.

3) Warmachine/Hordes gets a dedicated shop
- I actually see this happening. Someone will eventually find a way to overcome all the complex challenges that comes with it, which involves not only monetary, brick & mortar, but also community integration, supplier issues, key industry player relationships, etc. Having a dedicated shop is also key to contributing point #2.

4) Another game system will rise
- Games like Infinity, Malifaux, Dystopian Wars and Flames of War, just to name a few, are widely played overseas. Although these games are not commonly played here, it's only a matter of time till one of these companies do "something right" that attracts a group of people here to form a community. At one point, Infinity was close to getting there. However, it fell apart along the way. We'll just have to wait and see which of these games will come out tops to compete the likes of WH40k and WM crowd here.

In 10 years... it's murky.
So let's talk about the definite stuff.

I see technology picking up, and social media expanding.
Which has pros and cons to our hobby.


1. Increased awareness of shops/events/players/communities, which is good.

2. Promoting shops/events/packages/goods will also be near zero-investment. (Every shop-owner reading this should mark my words.)

3. Promoting stuff via social media will also be most effective. 2nd to - or probably, overtaking - word-of-mouth.

4. More connectivity = more 2nd hand sales = less business for store owners. I don't want to sound preachy and I'm not judging anyone because we've all done it. But we need to understand that the selling of 2nd hand minis is bad for business/hobby development. (Which is one of the many reasons why I'm reluctant to let go of my Necrons)

5. So is the downloading of digital content (not GW-digital content). Again, not judging anyone, but I would encourage people who is playing to have the army book/codex.

6. The next generation of gamers will be more exposed to GW books/games/movies/whatever, so our hobby does get more exposure. However, they are more attuned to immediate results/awards. You've all seen this behaviour in Gen Y, because the internet is immediate.

My 2 cents.

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4. More connectivity = more 2nd hand sales = less business for store owners. I don't want to sound preachy and I'm not judging anyone because we've all done it. But we need to understand that the selling of 2nd hand minis is bad for business/hobby development.

I don't entirely agree that selling old models affect business, even if it is, I believe it's not detrimental to store owners. One reason I can think of is that, you will hardly see new releases being resold by players within the next 2 or 3 years who just bought them. Additionally, the people who sell their stuff will likely to buy even more with that money from store owners.

If anything, it might help new people who are interested have difficulties starting armie because of the initial sum of money needed to play small games. In due time, they will invest in the hobby little by little through store owners since you can't get everything from third parties. So it actually helps the hobby develop.

Of course, what I'm stating is nothing absolute because we don't know who is selling and who is buying them. However, it is a different perspective to look at it instead of 'redirecting hobby money' that could have been given to store owners.

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So is the downloading of digital content (not GW-digital content). Again, not judging anyone, but I would encourage people who is playing to have the army book/codex.

I admit here that I'm a 'pirate' but there is absolutely no way to convince people to be otherwise since the alternative is extremely enticing and convenient. You can only hope people who download it, would also buy the book too for collecting purposes.

You could opt to ban or just refuse to play with people who doesn't have the appropriate books but what justice would that do for the hobby, when people already spend thousands on models compare to a single book that they didn't buy? In my opinion, as long as people know the rules and are capable of showing me the rules, I'm more or less satisfied to have a game with them.

Arzmi wrote:

yea man i agree to a point. but it is also possible to look at it this way. correct me if im wrong btw

hobby aspect
-you got a group who does not care about winning just the historical / fluff accuracy
-you got the painters who couldnt give two shitz about gaming
-you got wargamers who coudnt really follow the rules right and go with the flow

gaming aspect
-people who play to win
-you got the gamers who couldnt give two shitz about painting
-you got wargamers who go by the book

Would like to add another social aspect:
- people like me who just play and collect for the fun/hobby of it (and meeting new people by the way)

Which reminds me, I should resume my Space Hulk sessions at HF. Being absent for too long.

AznJake wrote:

If anything, it might help new people who are interested have difficulties starting armie because of the initial sum of money needed to play small games. In due time, they will invest in the hobby little by little through store owners since you can't get everything from third parties. So it actually helps the hobby develop.

Yes, introduce new people with a mindset that "Hey, I can always buy it 2nd hand."

That would be assuming you can get everything from 2nd hand for the list you're aiming to complete, which is unlikely since not everyone has something others want and the average game of 1750 points is not only a few units to get.

Buying 2nd hand is an opportunity that comes every once in a while for a few lucky players. Two-third of my Tau comes from store owners (reaching 3500 points), almost all my Tyranids were bought from Alvin while some from CM; my Grey Knight army is a compilation of different models from different systems so I can't really say much there.

Only in UK, I see the vast number of 2nd hand models are available in the internet, but the stores here sell cheaper than GW anyways.

With such expenses needed for hobbyists in Malaysia, you need to at least accept that some people will look for cheaper alternatives. As I've said, the community is still small comparably against other countries, such tradings lets people who are interested to see that there are opportunities for them to buy cheaper stuff, not the main option to have.

Just look at the Player's Stores section, are the 2nd hand models selling like hotcakes? Nope, because there's a few reasons,
(a) They want unpainted and/or unassembled models.
(b) They want superbly painted models.
(c) The price they put is still not enticing enough.
(e) If shipping is not available, travelling from a far place to trade is a factor to consider.
(d) Again, it might be because it's not the models they want.

I think to each his/her own. I believe 2nd hand models are a valid way to build an army, especially when you're just starting off. I have about 10,000 points (or more) of IG, and while most were bought brand new, my IG collection itself started with buying a load of 2nd hand Valhallans, some Mordians, and lots of really old plastic IG, plus a Leman Russ and a Chimera. I started the hobby itself by buying a brand new Eldar battle force - without even knowing the rules. I subsequently built up a huge Eldar army with mostly 2nd hand models. Being my very first army, I think my Eldar is 50% or slightly less out of 5,000 points. My Thousand Sons army is almost entirely brand new, except for the Mk I Land Raider which I got used but MiB. My Ravenwing army is actually majority 2nd hand. I started it very early in my hobby back when I had less cash than ambition, and since it was a side project, I didn't want to spend much on it. When I revived the project in 2008, I had more money and finished the army with brand new models (the battleforce and attack bikes - Sammael I won in a tourney). Anyways, I noticed that nowadays I tend to buy brand new things outright. But it was not always the case when I was much younger and poorer