4th Co. Ultramarines - 1,750pts

Hi guys, how’s CNY prep coming along? Since in Malaysia everyone celebrates every festivity (masyarakat majmuk), I just thought of firstly greeting everyone happy CNY ahead of time.

Anyway as per the above, I’ve been having a few 1,750 pts games of late. My list had minor adjustments between the 1st and 2nd game but remained unchanged so far after that. It is as below;

HQ:
Captain – PF + AA + SS
> Comd Sqd – Meltagun (4) <
> Drop Pod <

Troops:
Tac Sqd – Flamer, Lascannon
Tac sqd – Flamer, Lascannon
> Rhino <

Elites:
Tac Termi – Cyclone ML + Chainfist (2)
> Land Raider <

Fast Attack:
Land Speeder – Typhoon ML
Land Speeder – Typhoon ML

Heavy Support:
TFC
Predator – Autocannon; Sponson Lascannon
Predator – Autocannon; Sponson Lascannon

It is a typical gunline army; shoot-shoot-shoot. At the moment my W-L-D ratio is 2-2-0. Games in brief so far;

1) Vs Joe’s World Eaters CSM
- In this game I had a MM attached to my LR, both my Tac Sgt. had combi-meltas and someone had a meltabomb (I’ve since changed it to the above list)
- Shooting was great the first two turns for me since I started first but once Joe’s Heldrakes arrived, my tac marines were BBQ-ed... what more with no cover possible and it was Scouring
- I did a few mistake with my TFC ammo selection and I kinda forgot that the remaining WE HQ that survived longer had no meltabombs... waste my time running my LR from it
- Due to bad positioning as well, my Predators were side swiped by the Heldrakes... one was eventually destroyed but the other was still alive with only a lascannon lost
* For further reference, more can be found in Joe’s WE CSM thread...

- Main points that hit my head were:
a) I need to pop flyers either with AA or flyers of my own
b) I need a way to hide my guys from those hot hot AP3 flames
c) I need better deployment tactics


2) Vs Yip’s Forge World Space Marines
- Well a lot has been said of this at Yip’s Space Marine thread. For further reading please refer there.

- Main points that hit my head were:
a) 5-man TH&SS termis are scary... 5-man TH&SS termis with Feel No Pain are horrorible
b) That 1 FW HQ needs proper retort
c) I still need better deployment tactics


3) Vs Nahri’s Grey Blood Angels
- Now this is interesting... both sides have alpha strikers coming in a DP... I have my Comd Sqd and he has a 10-man combi-melta Sternguard (or was it 9) with a Priest for FNP
- Other stuff he’s got is the annoying 3 attack bike with HB in a squad, a Storm Raven (Argh, another flyer), Assault termis with a mix of TH&SS + LC and attached Chaplain, Scout Sqd, Assault Marines (DP-ing), Dev Sqd and Baal Predator
- I tried castling up to protect my vehicles from instant kills as best as I can since he’s got 2 DP-ing units. My deployment was still not that great though... still lost a Predator each time the BA DP in.
- Amazingly, I seized the initiative and that greatly affected the game.
- My MVP was the TFC this time, killing the Dev Sqd with some support fire and wiping a just arrived 10-man Assault Sqd on its own.

- Main points that hit my head were:
a) Baal Predators can be sneaky... they can scout! (Aku tak tau marr)
b) A mixed Assault Termi Sqd is not as scary as a full TH&SS sqd but with a Chaplain attached things do become dicey
c) I need to learn how to use my armour better... had it been a big guns never tire mission, habis aku


4) Vs Arzmi’s GK Walking DraigoWing
- Being the macho guy that he is, Arzmi provided me with a landscape which was to my favour... What a guy! What a man! What a hero! Then again with 20 pallies... what fear is there? LOL.
- Our dice rolls in this game were mixed but the higher rolls were from Arzmi’s side... I lost count how many 5+ invul saves he made that day.
- It was a shooting festival with 3 assault phases only. By the end of the day, my comd sqd, drop pod, LR, termis, rhino and 19 tac marines were dead. Draigo had half of his life with him (that old geezer) with his personal medic and two or three pallies left. Corteaz was unfortunately dead (good old TFC techmarine who couldn’t shoot the TFC on target but did stupendously well with his plasma pistol on Corteaz) and so was his 10-man pally escort.

- Main points that hit my head were:
a) Psycannons supported by Relentless special rule is darn scary... especially when the enemy has 4 of them per 10-man! Correct me if I’m wrong but that’s 16 S7 rending shots per turn per squad!
b) Me thinks me need some TH&SS... all 4 games seem to point me to enlist their service.
c) My army needs extra classes on the shooting range. They seem to be BS3 not BS4.

In all this is just a simple update and report. Advice, tips, opinions, comments all welcomed...

Wish I could have 1 more game before CNY... *sigh*

Happy CNY guys...

yes, having a small 5 men TH&SS is good for you since your army is mainly shooting. assault armies once hit your line is game over (most of the time).
you need something that can guard your gunline or tarpit deathstar unit so you can benefit more from your shooting.

no one really have an answer to Arzmi GK walking draigowing. not even the Chosen One..... lol

There's nothing much to say because you already knew the answer to your problem --> CC Termies. Put them + Lord in LRaider and it will change how you'll play your list, how to approach the game. It changes your list from shooty to hybrid.

IMHO your list is already hybrid. It's not exactly gunline cuz your Cmd Sq + HQ comes down in a drop pod. And the Land Raider is more of a delivery vehicle than a gunline vehicle.

Just curious, how many times did your captain actually stepped out of the LR and willingly engage an opponent?

Hey Yip. Let's see 2 out of the 4 times.

vs Nahri, the Captain attached himself with the termis and assaulted a drop podded cbt squaded Sternguard squad. He of course fulfilled his task there and hunkered down for cover from a Storm Raven that picked off all but 1 of his termi escorts.

vs Arzmi, the Captain once again attached himself with the termis and assaulted Draigo and his pallies. Unfortunately, they lost the assault and had to fall back (a combat squaded tac marine sqd contributed to their failed assault... force halberd doing them in and making them loose combat). With not much rounds left, the Captain had to withdraw from the engagement to deny the Kill the Warlord VP while my FA and HS units did all the shooting for the last two turns.

@Dann : I wouldn't say gunline, but surely shooty list. It dont have any dedicated CC unit at all to be considered hybrid.

Aniway, this is how I would tailor the list:

Captain | PF, AA, SS
Cmd Squad | 4 Meltaguns, Drop Pod,
5 Aslt Termies | 5 TH&SS
- dedicated LR with MMelta
5 Termies | 1 Cyclone
Tact Squad | Meltagun, Missile
Tact Squad | Meltagun, Missile
- dedicated Rhino
1 Typhoon
TFC
1 Predator | Side-lasscannon

I prefer Speeder with 2 MMelta now, but you seem to like Typhoon more.

BLee wrote:

Hey Yip. Let's see 2 out of the 4 times.

vs Nahri, the Captain attached himself with the termis and assaulted a drop podded cbt squaded Sternguard squad. He of course fulfilled his task there and hunkered down for cover from a Storm Raven that picked off all but 1 of his termi escorts.

vs Arzmi, the Captain once again attached himself with the termis and assaulted Draigo and his pallies. Unfortunately, they lost the assault and had to fall back (a combat squaded tac marine sqd contributed to their failed assault... force halberd doing them in and making them loose combat). With not much rounds left, the Captain had to withdraw from the engagement to deny the Kill the Warlord VP while my FA and HS units did all the shooting for the last two turns.

LOL... i expected something of that sort.

IMHO, its not a poor list but the 1st impression i get is the units in the list are neither here nor there. then i realise that it epitomises what a space marine list is all about. doing everything averagely but nothing exceptionally well. the problem with these types of list is that it requires a lot of thinking from the player. i remember seeing 1 SM net list that the units are so random but it actually won 1st prize at a tourney.

lets have a rematch after CNY. i want my revenge..

i would suggest that for the next game,u try out telion, full sniper scouts with ML and an aegis defense line with quad gun.

i find that it is very versatile and there is a lot of potential in this combo.

It has nothing that makes enemy think twice about coming at you. It has nothing that can harm the opponent once they're within our line.

Thanks for the inputs... will do some tweaking during CNY and see how the next game goes...

Happy travels people... or if you're not going anywhere... please stay safe.

Hi guys, hope you guys had a good break recently...

Had been a bit rusty and only got a game in recently with Subahan after CNY. We got Scouring with Hammer & Anvil deployment.

5) Vs Subahan's experimental Salamander list
- This was a list with Vulcan, Tigirius, 2 Stenguards (3 C.flamer + 5 C.Melta + 2 Meltagun), 2 Tacs (Meltagun + MM), 1 Iconclad, 1 MM Landspeeder and 5 drop pods
- He had first turn and I deployed as defensively as I could be with enough room to support any unit that gets hit by Subahan's killer 1st wave of 2 Stenguards with an IC each and the Ironclad
- In the course of the game, due to terrain density, Subahan had a challenging time to deploy his drop pods. Other than that, his TL Melta and Flamers were deadly
- My TFC claimed a fair number of kills along with my remaining elements. Frustration for me was when my Captain with PF was held by Vulcan for 4 rounds of close combat leaving 3 TH&SS Termis free to place bets when the challenge will be over
- I suppose the rolls were not that good for Subahan that day, hampering his target optimisation and allowing my shooty guys to do the job. It could have been very different had the terrain been less dense.
- The kill counts were... I lost 1 Predator, 1 Land Raider (durh!), 1 Land Speeder while he lost both ICs, 1 Full Tac Sqd, 1 Full Sternguard Sqd, 1 Ironclad, 1 Drop Pod

- Main points that hit my head were:
a) With the amount of drop pods Subahan had, I totally forgot my own drop pod but thankfully they were able to get in on the 2nd turn
b) I should try corner deployments against Drop Pod Armies
c) Vulcan's TL special for all meltas and flamers is darn scarry... Subahan had a total of 19 melta weapons and 7 flame template weapons.

It was a good game nonetheless but a fairly long one. There were just too many things to move... He had 42 infantry and I have a lot of different elements. Will need more practise this weekend...

Tips, comments... fire away!

It was a fun game. As a spectator, I truly enjoy watching how the game develope. Having no experience against Drop Pod list, that game gave me insight of what should and should not be done against that kind of list.

I later had a go against the same list. It was a tough game, berpeluh-peluh sampai hahaha..

Your list is stronger than before. 5 Assault Termies do make a lot of difference.

Updates... finally... it has been so long since my last game with Subahan...

6) Vs Alvin’s BA 5th Ed Tournament List (Scouring + Hammer & Anvil)
- I’m sure some of you guys have faced this before... it is the one in his showcase that includes, Dante (with Sang Guard and 3-4 infernus) plus a termi Libby and Corbulo (with 3 TH&SS, 3 LC and a LR Crusader). Other elements included Tac Sqd (Flammer & ML), Assault Sqd (PF & 2Mg) and Typhoon LS. It was a straight forward charging simple army... though simple is subjective...
- Objectives pt, 1 and 4 were on his side while the 3s were on my side. The 2s were somewhere in the middle. Night fighting was active on the first round.
- He had first turn and as usual, I lined up my gunline. I could not be too defensive as his reserves were only coming in at best on turn 2.

- Comedic moment 1... My Comd Sqd (4 meltas) DP failed to take out the LR and the medic failed to save two basic bolter wounds. He promptly died after that... Thankfully come my 2nd turn, the remaining 2 meltagunners were able to down the LR finally... of course they died after that thanks to the kraks from the typhoon...
- Epic moment 1... Alvin multi-assaults 2 cbt sqds and LR with his Termi mob and was supported by Dante and Sang Guards charge as well. Easily said, my footies were dead but LR was only scratched
- Comedic moment 2... with the footies before him dead, Dante and Sang Guard found themselves facing another cbt sqd and the guns of a pred... LOL, only Dante survived... he promptly charged the cbt sqd and made them pay next turn... killed 3 dudes
- Epic moment 2... My TH&SS termis and Captain comes out from LR and charges Alvin’s termi mob... It was a brutal 2 round combat of which I lost (leaving me with only 1 termi and Alvin with 1 TH&SS termi and Corbulo) but there was a consolation to that... hehehe
- Comedic moment 3... My Captain was challenged and died to a thunderhammer, not even able to inflict a retort to the BA termi sgt... darn...
- Epic moment 3... my falling back termi caused 2 things...
1) he auto regroups and heads towards Dante who was abusing one of my cbt sqd... ngiak ngiak ngiak... the termi eventually died fulfilling his duty but took Dante down with him and saved the cbt sqd... now with only the lascannon dude
2) he opened up Alvin’s remaining termi and Corbulo to... my LR, Pred, another cbt sqd, LS and TFC... those two did not survive past the 2nd volley...
- Comedic moment 4... somehow the game could not end despite me having an edge by the end of turn 5... for turn 5 to turn 7, Alvin was dancing his remaining cbt sqd from ruin to open ground to objective covering about 20 inches, dodging bolt rounds, lascannons and autocannons... and thus he got the 4pt objective sealing a draw... what the heck?!

- The kill counts were... a lot... My remainders were a 5-man cbt sqd, a 1-man cbt sqd, TFC, DP (2HP), Pred (2HP) and LR (1HP) while Alvin had a 3-man cbt. Kudos to Alvin for pulling a draw from the close match.

- Main points that hit my head were:
a) Comd Sqd... I’m not sure if it was the dice rolls or they are not as effective as I thought them to be
b) My army lacked some sort of killing edge... as Nahri correctly summarised... my army is still only so-so when it comes to taking a punch (in CC)
c) I forgot my Razorback... *sigh*

 
7) Vs Dom’s Dark Angels (Big Guns Never Tire + Hammer & Anvil)
- Ok, he is a newbie and a very fast painter... he amassed 2,000 pts of painted army in a few short months since Magacon 2012... Gilerrr... Anyway I’m writing this extended review for his benefit as much as mine... (Hope he is reading).
- His list consist of Belial (attached to 5 TH&SS with banner), Librarian, 5+5 DW termis (from DV box), 5 RW bikes (2 plasma guns with MM Attack bike), 1 Sqd of 2 RW Typhoons with MM, Dev Sqd (2 LasC + 2 PC), Cbt sqd with ML. It is quite a solid list but some tweaking IMHO would still be needed.
- If there was one major risk he was taking, it would be placing 1 objective in my deployment zone (we have only 4). I assume he would Deathwing assault me and try to claim that but it was still a risk. Naturally, I would put the other 2 on my side as well since I’m a hybrid gunline army leaving him with 1 objective with his cbt sqd in a ruin.

- On his first turn, he sent his RW charging at my gunline... all went flat out, gaining that 4+ cover... he even took out my TFC with his Dev Sqd’s LasCs... my techmarine however survived.
- IMHO, I suppose charging a gunline directly unsupported was his main error. Yes, his LS sqd with MM gets closer to the juicy LR in the middle of my gunline but... I still have a shooting phase... which promptly wiped them all out... my termis even got to charge his RW bikes
- Then only on his 2nd turn did his DW arrive... now that would have been a different case had they arrived on the first turn... I guess he wanted to pop my armor with his RW first for his termis
- His Deathwing assault arrived at a corner which I had left open behind my gunline... it was sizable but still a challenge for 3 deep strikes... 1 DW sqd misshaped and was delayed... Belial’s sqd and the other arrive without a hitch.
- However because the termis just arrived, they could not do much either and were stuck close to where they landed... giving me another chance to realign my guns to shoot at them... which interestingly failed to do much.
- Seizing the chance, on his turn 3, Belial and Co. charged my speedy bump unit (1 cbt sqd rear guard) and tapau them but once again opened them to a round of shooting next turn. His other unit exploded 1 of my Pred and Dev took out a LS. The earlier misshaped unit came in as well.
- Now seeing that the situation has turned a notch up in risk, I fired nearly every gun I had at his termis. This time it worked for me... Belial was left with his standard bearer and 1 other TH&SS termi while his other 2 DW sqds took some losses as well. My 4-man termi sqd with Captain then charged Belial... with odds in my favour 5:3. I also managed to cripple his Dev sqd by killing off his LasC units as well.
- Come his 4th turn, Dom was in serious trouble with very little to shoot. He did take out my Razorback but by then my Pred was already in range to fire at full BS. In assault, my termis finished Belial and consolidated towards a DW sqd which was further away.
- By the end of my 4th turn shooting, Dom was down to 1 assault cannon DW and his Devs have lost all long range capabilities (my lone LS that flanked Dom’s rear line having exacted a toll).

- It was brutal... by the time he conceded and also because I had to go, his army had only 1 assault cannon termi in my deployment zone, 1 sgt in Dev Sqd, the 5-man cbt sqd and a 1 wound Libby... I on the other hand had lost 1 Pred, 1 LS, 1 Razorback and 1 cbt sqd...

- Main points that hit my head were:
a) There was a fair bit that Dom could have done tactically and in his list. There was a lot of potential.
b) Manoeuvrability was something that popped up to me... I really need to make sure that my guns provide over lapping cover fire.
c) I need to find a way to squeeze out more shot... my current list is still far from Alvin’s uber DE gunline or Arzmi’s moving gunline... *sigh*... such high standards...


Comments, input, etc... please do... Thanks.

Quote :

a) Comd Sqd... I’m not sure if it was the dice rolls or they are not as effective as I thought them to be

The Command Squads are good at what they do. But it's Alvins LR you're facing. That thing is blessed by the Sanguiness. Even in my game, it survived 6 melta shots at magic range + 1 penetrating hit from a lasscannon

Quote :

My army lacked some sort of killing edge... as Nahri correctly summarised... my army is still only so-so when it comes to taking a punch (in CC)

Ultramarines were never too good at taking punch. Their strength is in tactical withdrawal (that Combat Tactics is HUGE!) and close range firefight. A couple or more plasmaguns might be very usefull.

LordAK wrote:

Quote :

a) Comd Sqd... I’m not sure if it was the dice rolls or they are not as effective as I thought them to be

The Command Squads are good at what they do. But it's Alvins LR you're facing. That thing is blessed by the Sanguiness. Even in my game, it survived 6 melta shots at magic range + 1 penetrating hit from a lasscannon

I agree... I've only ever blown Alvin's LR after it's delivered its termies...

Well... thanks for that Kadir and Dann... will need more practice with opposing flyers in the future... dunno if my list can take them...

then i have better luck, managed to blow up his one or two times while his termies still inside.

if you wanna test against flyers. feel free to play against my 4 FMC daemon list la.

Wah! Chosen Joe sudah buka mulut... issue offer to challenge somemore... Fuyoh!

Why not...? Cuba cuba lorr...

Hi guys... managed a game with the long lost Dann today... It was funny as always playing with Dann... such an amusing fella...

Vs Dann's BA Golden Boys (Big Guns Never Tire + DOW)
- It was his usual list with Dante, 3 Sang Guards Sqd (2 sqds with 2 plasma pistols, 1 sqd with PF and 2 Infernus), 2 priests, 1 Assault Sqd and 2 Storm Ravens (TL LasC, TL MM, 4 BSM).
- Since there were only 3 objectives and he was heading for me, all 3 of them could be found on my table half. 2 were in ruins (Grd flr and 2nd flr) and the last one was in the open. Night fighting was not active on the first round.
- I had first turn, I deployed across my deployment zone, maximising on fields of fire. Care had to be taken since Dante and the SG with PF, Priest and 2 Infernus were DPing. Other elements include a Cbt sqd with 2 meltaguns and TH on the sgt and the 2 SR.

Highlight 1... My first round of shooting punished Dann's initial troops. I wiped out a SG Sqd with Priest attachment with weight of fire and killed off another 2 SG from another sqd nearby. Wasted thing was that the TFC however was blocked from LOS.

Highlight 2... Dann survived my Turn 1 and Turn 2 shooting and his calvary arrived. Both SR went for my LR and wreaked it with 2 pens and 2 glances. Dante & Co. immobilised a Pred but Assault Cbt Sqd with Mgs failed to kill the TFC techmarine.

Comedic moment 1... Dann's Assault Cbt Sqd with 2 Mg needs more practice drills. On turn of arrival, 2 Mgs missed. On turn b4 assaulting the Mgs missed again. In the assault, they also failed to kill the techmarine. His TH Sgt rolled 1,2,3 to Hit and amusingly, my Techmarine was "dikir barat-ing" with the Sgt rolling triple 1s. It was thankfully sorted the next turn when his TH Sgt tapau the techmarine. However, this very same sqd was held by my Cbt Sqd later for 3 rds of combat after they failed again to kill anything with their Mg b4 charging. *sigh*

Highlight 3... Having killed my LR, Dann's SRs went to hover mode. One SR targeted a Pred and a Razorback while another targeted 1 LS and my Pod. After the smoked cleared, the Pod was still in play with 1 HP with my Pred at 2 HP, the Autocannon blown off.

Comedic moment 2... My termies failed to charge on a roll of 4 (7 required)... and then did badly moving through terrain the next turn with another 4... and in the last possible charge phase it failed again with a roll of 6 (8 required). My termies need to go on a diet and some exercise on the running field.

Comedic moment 3... Both Dann and I have bad critical shooting rolls... His SR blood strike missiles were rolling 1s while the LasCs on my Cbt sqd were also mostly doing the same. We hit but failed to pen when we rolled 1!

Highlight 4... Dann wrecks my Pred with Dante on 2nd try and hides behind it from my LS, and approaching TH&SS termies.

Highlight 5... Hovering SRs were taken down my LasC from Cbt Sqd (it got engaged later) and Pred (it died next turn) and by LasC from another Cbt Sqd and LS.

Comedic Moment 4... Dante & Co. were hiding from my TH&SS for as long as they could before they initiated a charge which saw each side loosing 3 models each. Out of fear once again, Dann initiates a Hit&Run but was later shot and finished off by the very same unit they charged (Capt & TH&SS Termi Sqd)/

- By the end of the game Dann only had his lone Assault Cbt Sqd (TH Sgt. with 2 other) engaged with my lone LasC marine from a Cbt Sqd. I lost all vehicles except 1 LS and 1 DP (It was still alive! The thing also killed a SG on its own!) plus I had my Capt (1 Wd), 1 lone Termi and 2 other unengaged Cbt Sqd.

- Main points that hit my head were:
a) Comd Sqd failed me again! I only managed to kill 1 SG with my Mg! Argh!
b) My army folded quite quickly when it was assaulted. Dann's Assault Cbt Sqd though bad with their rolls killed my TFC and a Pred before getting tied up by my Cbt Sqd.
c) SRs are scary. I may need some flyer power! Had they not hovered, I may not have taken them down.


Comments welcome. Fire away!

I made one huge error when dividing my forces for deepstrike - should have put the full assault squad (10 man) in reserve.

That unit could have done more if they were in greater numbers.

That is true but I'm not sure if you can do that. I mean 50% of your army must be in 1st turn, right?

As I see it, you've initially got 3 sqds in on first turn (Cbt Assault Sqd + 2 SG) and the other 4 (Cbt Assault Sqd + 2 SR + SG) were in only on 2nd turn. I'm not sure how that works though. I'm not a reservist army after all...

IMHO, it would have been good had ur initial army been more in cover or had hid out of sight. It definitely would be tough for me had ur initial force survived longer.

Hmm... That makes me realize that I will need to castle up more defensively...

My breakdown vs you was:

On table:
S.Guards
S.Guards
Combat Assault squad
Priest

Reserve:
Dante
Priest
S.Guards
Combat Assault squad

Should have kept the assault squads as a single unit, making it 3 on table, and 4 off table.

Err... pardon me Dann but do Storm Ravens count towards this? If it does, it would be 4 to 6...