Eldar/ BA/ SW/ BT/ SM/ DA/ GK/ IG - Din's Approach

Really? So sad..Then, might as well exchange the Hydras with a Manticore, but I'd have to take away Disarming Strike from the Avatar cuz Manticore is 160pts while the 2 Hydras are 150pts. 

The balance of 10pts, I'll give another meltagun to Veteran Sqd #1. Thus, my anti-air would be the 3 Vendettas - we'll be seing some dog fight!!!

u build this list for real, then i'll worry about it

I've edited the post title, thus making this my official lists entries for these armies.

Anyway, since at the current situation we can see the appearance of FW models in friendly & tournament matches. Thus I'm putting here a list incorporating element(s) from the FW series.

Here goes:-

Primary Detachment: Dark Angels

HQ
1. DA Librarian: Mastery Lvl.1 (Divination), Force Sword & Bolt Pistol, Powerfield Generator
2. DA Librarian: Mastery Lvl.1 (Divination), Force Sword & Bolt Pistol, Powerfield Generator

TROOPS
1. 5-men Tactical Marines: Standard Equipments, 1 x Lascannon
2. 5-men Tactical Marines: Standard Equipments, 1 x Lascannon

ELITES
1. 5-men Deathwing Terminators: Sgt with pair of LCs, the rest with Stormbolters & Powerfists, 1 x Cyclone ML

HEAVY SUPPORTS
1. Deimos Pattern Predator Executioner: Turret Plasma Destroyer, sponsons Heavy Bolters
2. Deimos Pattern Predator Executioner: Turret Plasma Destroyer, sponsons Heavy Bolters
3. Deimos Pattern Predator Executioner: Turret Plasma Destroyer, sponsons Heavy Bolters


Allied Detachment: Imperial Guards

HQ
1. Company Command Sqd: Commander & 4 Veterans, Lasguns, 1 x Mortar, Camo Cloaks, Astropath, Master of Ordnance

TROOP
1. 10-men Veteran Sqd: Lasguns, 3 x Meltaguns

FAST ATTACKS
1. Vendetta Squadron: 3 x Vendettas - each with 3 x T/L Lascannons

HEAVY SUPPORT
1. Manticore Rocket Launcher

TOTAL = 1850pts

If you read the FAQ the Deathwing Sergeant cant change equipment anymore. He is stuck with the Sword and Bolter.

Here is a fun imperial monster-mash list in response to AK's 4 FMCs + 3 Baledrakes & Joe's 6 FMCs...saja suka-suka.

HQ
1. Lord Kaldor Draigo

TROOPS
1. Solo-din: NF-Sword
2. Solo-din: NFalchions
3. Solo-din: NFalchions

FAST ATTACKS
1. GK Stormraven: T/L Assault Cannons, T/L Multimelta, 4 x Mindstrike Missiles, sponsons Hurricane Bolters, Psybolt Ammo
2. GK Stormraven: T/L Assault Cannons, T/L Multimelta, 4 x Mindstrike Missiles, sponsons Hurricane Bolters, Psybolt Ammo

HEAVY SUPPORTS
1. GK Dreadknight: Nemesis Greatsword, Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Personal Teleporter
2. GK Dreadknight: Nemesis Greatsword, Heavy Incinerator, Gatling Psilencer, Personal Teleporter
3. GK Dreadknight: Nemesis Greatsword, Heavy Incinerator, Gatling Psilenser, Personal Teleporter

Total = 1850pts

NICE! let's fight! monster bash! like that movie Pacific Rim!!!!!

Never saw that one.. Much like Ultraman/Godzilla?

new movie...coming out soon. must watch!

If it don't suck.. I'll go have a look hahaha..

I like the SR setup.. gila shooty at hight strength summore..

Here's another monster-bash list, combining GK & BA. The HQs are marines, but due to their unusual stats & abilities, i believe they qualify into that monster category.

GK Primary Detachment
HQ
1. Lord Kaldor Draigo

TROOPS
1. Solo-din: NF-Sword
2. Solo-din: NF-Sword

HEAVY SUPPORTS
1. GK Dreadknight: Nemesis Greatsword, Heavy Incinerator, Heavy Psycannon, Personal Teleporter
2. GK Dreadknight: Nemesis Greatsword, Heavy Incinerator, Gatling Psilencer, Personal Teleporter
3. GK Dreadknight: Nemesis Greatsword, Heavy Incinerator, Gatling Psilenser, Personal Teleporter


BA Allied Detachment
HQ
1. Mephiston

TROOP
1. 4 Death Company Marines: 1 x Power Axe

HEAVY ATTACK
1. BA Stormraven: T/L Lascannon, T/L Multimelta, 4 x Bloodstrike Missiles, sponsons Hurricane Bolters,

Total = 1850pts

Why not full GK.. You don't need the BA SR and Meph

With the allied list, I'd have a lot more threat for the opponent to consider as early as Turn 1 without having to wait for the reserves to arrive.

In another variant list of allied GK-BA, I'd have a dpod sqd instead of the Death Co. Marines. The idea is to maximize the threat a.s.a.p.

Solo-din..

"Where's your troops?"
"Here.. this guy over here and another one there"
"WTF!?!"

Wei..the Solo-dins are expensive!! 55pts for a 1-man unit! At least each has 2+/5++ & ez to be hidden behind terrain/cover.

If I can spare 40pts, I can give them Nemesis Warding Staff each. If they happen to be involved in cc, at least they'd have 2++ to defend themselves & hopefully be able to hold the line for as long as possible until reinforcement arrive.

Kedekut pahit..

over-reliance on uber-units is gonna be bad for you la...

Since almost everybody is playing campaign matches at the Forge, Kadir asked me to come over to his house for some games. I arrived at 12.25 p.m. (Saturday) & he asked if I could play Eldar cuz he wants to test his WE against them.

My list (1850pts):-

HQ
1. Avatar: Fast Shot & Disarming Strike - proxied with a Khorne DP
2. Karandras - actual model

TROOPS
1. 5 Dire Avengers & Wave Serpent: Holofield, T/L Starcannons, Shuriken Cannon - actual models
2. 5 Dire Avengers & Wave Serpent: Holofield, T/L Starcannons, Shuriken Cannon - actual models
3. 5 Dire Avengers & Wave Serpent: Holofield, T/L Starcannons, Shuriken Cannon - actual models

ELITE
1. 5 Firedragons: Exarch - Firepike, Fast Shot - proxied with Warlocks

HEAVY SUPPORTS
1. Wraith Knight: Suncannon & Scattershield, 1 x Scatterlaser - a.k.a Tin-Knight cuz I proxied with a spray paint tin put on a flyer base hihihi..
2. Wraithlord: 2 x Brightlances, 2 x Flamers, Ghost Glaive - proxied with a Daemon Prince
3. Wraithlord: 2 x Brightlances, 2 x Flamers, Ghost Glaive - proxied with a Daemon Prince


Kadir's list (maybe with some corrections here & there):-
HQ
1. Khorne Lord: Sigil of Corruption, AoBR, BBoS, Power Armor

TROOP
1. 8 Berzerkers in Rhino
2. 8 Berzerkers in Rhino

FAST ATTACK
1. Bale-Drake

HEAVY SUPPORTS
1. Tri-Las Pred
2. Tri-Las Pred

Allied Chaos Daemons
HQ
1. Bloodthirster; 1 x Exalted & 1 Greater Reward

TROOP
1. 20 Bloodletters: 1 Champion with 1 Lesser Reward

FAST ATTACK
1. 15 Flesh Hounds of Khorne


Mission: No.4 - Scouring
Deployment: Pitch Battle
Warlord Traits: Eldar Avatar - Counter Atk in own deployment zone
                    Khorne Lord - Repositioning units
Night Fight: Not in Turn 1; Eldar went first

Summary:-
- It was quite a 1-sided match with Eldar dominating the shooting phases throughout the game. --

- Karandras managed to distract the huge Flesh Hounds pack. He personally absorbed 13 wounding hits when the Hounds charged him & the Firedragons without failing any svs.

- The Tin-Knight was pretty descent. It contributed a lot of firepowers to thin down enemy units & even destroying 1 Tri-Las Pred via shooting Scatterlaser & t/l Suncannon to the Pred's side armor, & 1 Berzerker sqd via close combat (after shooting them to bits).

-My word..Wraithlords are pretty awesome themselves in the new codex! Long Range Brightlance shots for anti-tank & 2 Flamer shots for short-range anti-horde crowd control!! Very Evil!!! 1 W-Lord personally caused 10-12 wounds to the Bloodletter-mob just from 2 Flamer-shots!

- Still, the MVPs for the match would have to go to the Wave Serpents. I only used 3 Serpents in this game, but they totally wrecked Kadir's forces. 1 Serpent even managed to cause 4 pen-shots to the Bale-Drake's rear armor.

- Kadir had really bad luck in this match: wounding his own Bloodthirster from a destroyed Wave Serpent after charging it, failing his charge rolls for his Flesh Hounds against my 2nd Serpent even with Fleet re-roll. He even failed the all-important Grimoire roll for his daemon-bomb-Bloodletters.

On the other hand, my rolls were mostly magnificent, especially the roll for the Serpent's Shield d6+1 no. of shots - almost always I got 5, 6 or 7 shots!!

Result: WE was totally annihilated.

EDIT: Actually he got 1 unit of below half strength Berzerkers led by his Khorne Lord, but were quite far from a 3-pt obj contested by my W-Lord#1, while I was in possession of a 4-pt objective & soon to be grabbing another 1-pt obj. He conceded.

On with the 2nd game (I couldn't continue last nite - was sleepy like crazy).


After taking a break at the cafe discussing our 1st game yesterday, Kadir was mulling whether to play DE or try again his WE against the Eldar forces. Both of us agree that the current Eldar is superbly cheezy, & the only way to learn fighting Eldar is..well..by fighting them la of course!!

In the end, he decided to try his WE again. So I decided to change the Eldar list a little bit by taking Eldrad, Harlequins & a Crimson Hunter for air-support which my previous list was lacking.

HQ
1. Eldrad - actual model
2. Spirit Seer - using new Warlock model

TROOPS
1. 5 Dire Avengers & Wave Serpent: Holofield, T/L Scatterlasers, Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones - actual models
2. 5 Dire Avengers & Wave Serpent: Holofield, T/L Scatterlasers, Shuriken Cannon - actual models
3. 5 Dire Avengers & Wave Serpent: Holofield, T/L Scatterlasers, Shuriken Cannon - actual models

ELITE
1. 5 Harlequins: Shadow Seer, all with Harlequins' Kiss

FAST ATTACK
1. Crimson Hunter Exarch -

HEAVY SUPPORTS
1. Wraith Knight: Suncannon & Scattershield, 1 x Scatterlaser - a.k.a Tin-Knight cuz I proxied with a spray paint tin put on a flyer base hihihi..
2. Wraithlord: 2 x Brightlances, 2 x Flamers, Ghost Glaive - proxied with a Daemon Prince
3. Wraithlord: 2 x Brightlances, 2 x Flamers, Ghost Glaive - proxied with a Daemon Prince

Note: I added in the Spirit Seer cuz I have extra 80pts. That's why I don't have any W-Guards for Troops cuz he was not in my original plan.

Kadir's WE: He used the same list as the 1st game.

Mission: Crusade with 3 obj.
Deployment: Hammer & Anvil (the one that I hated the most)
Night Fight: 1st Turn
Warlord Traits: Eldar-Eldrad's default trait (which I didn't even used cuz I totally forgotten about it); Khorne Lord-enemy reserve rolls at -1 penalty.
1st Turn: Chaos (Kadir seized the initiative)

1st Turn
- Kadir moved & ran his Hounds (he forgot to make their Scouts move) towards the blocking LOS terrain in the middle-right of the table, followed by his swooping Bloodthirster, & a flat-out Rhino carrying Berzerkers.

2nd Rhino moved behind Rhino#1. Tri-las Preds shuffle a bit to take pot-shots at Tin-Knight. Tin-Knight suffered 1 wound.

- In my Turn 1, i gained 1st blood by destroying Rhino#2 from a Serpent#1 in my middle deployment zone & Black Serpent (the only painted Serpent & equipped with Spirit Stones). 3rd Serpent on my far right failed to destroy his 1st Rhino due to poor armor penetration rolls.

Still, his huge 15 Flesh Hounds pack was reduced to just 4 due the combined devastating shots of Guided & Prescienced W-lords + the super accurate shots of the Tin-Knight's Scatter laser & pseudo-t/l Suncannon. The Tin-Knight by himself was responsible for causing 18 wounding hits onto the Khorne-dogs, of which Kadir managed to rolled 14 failed-saves!! Truly Kadir kena jinx kaw-kaw!!

Tin-Knight then failed to charge the remaining dogs. And from here on, the jinx was on both of us on this middle-right flank for several turns.


2nd Turn
- With Night Fight gone, Kadir started to target my Serpents with his Tri-Las Preds. Unfortunately, he only managed to inflict 1 hull-pt damage on Serpent#1. Bale-Drake came, flame the Black Serpent, in but didn't cause anything.

- Bloodthirster moved towards the Tin-Knight, shot his Lash-whip but failed to-hit even with BS10 & re-roll. With 7 attacks when charging, The Bloodthirster only managed to caused 3 wounds (as he intended), of which I successfully saved 2 of them with Scattershield 5++ sv. Here I forgot that the 'Thirster would have to make 2 Blind tests.

- Remaining Flesh Hounds moved towards my Guided W-Lord & charged him, causing 1 wound. I screwed on the W-Lord's atks, even with mastercrafted Ghost Glaive, so they were tied in the cc.

- Khorne Lord then hitched into Rhino#1. It moved towards a ruin in the centre of the table.

- My Turn 2, Guided W-Lord targeted his front Tri-Las Pred, but failed to pen his armor. Eldrad, Seer & Harlequins charged into the Hounds, wiping them off. Tin-Knight continued his uphill battle against the Bloodthirster, suffering 2 more wounds. Still, it managed to caused 1 wound to the greater daemon. All the Serpents targeted Rhino#1 & its passengers, destroying it killing 6 more Berzerkers leaving the Khorne Lord & only 2 Berzerkers left.


Turn 3
- Bloodthirster finally destroyed my Wraith-Tin-Knight. On hind sight, its a blessing that the Knight held him off for 3 combat phases.

- Tri-Las #1 shot & managed to cause 2 wounds to W-Lord#1 which has 4+ invul courtesy of Eldrad's spell. Bale-drake vector-struck my middle Serpent & destroying it in a large explosion. Luckily all passengers survived.

It then proceeded to flame my W-Lords & the Harlequin-Council. The W-Lords were too tough for the Baleflamer, but 2 of the Harlequins, including the Shadow Seer were killed. Eldrad absorbed 4 wounds & suffered 1 failed sv. The lack of Fortune spell was really felt this time. The Soul Blaze effect caused 1 wound to the Spirit Seer.

- Khorne Lord shot his Burning Brand towards the Dire Avengers, killing 1. Its Soul Blaze after effect failed to cause further casualty.

- Bloodletters-daemon-bomb sqd came in, deep striking just next to the stranded Dire Avengers. They ran to hide into a ruin.

- In my turn, wounded W-Lord moved towards Khorne Lord's unit, followed by Eldrad & Harlequins. The 4 stranded Dire Avengers who originally intended to target the Drake's rear armor also contributed shots to the Khorne Lord. The resulting shooting phase & combined assault killed the Khorne Lord, but 1 lone Berzerker managed to survive.

- 2nd W-Lord with Guide caused 1 more wound to the Bloodthirster. My 3rd Serpent on the far right flank delivered the coup de grace with its massive no. of shots.

- Crimson Hunter Exarch finally came in, moving parallel to the left side of the Drake so that it couldn't Vector Strike the jet later on, & made its Vector Dancer move towards the Drake's side armor. It wouldn't matter though, cuz the Exarch pilot destroyed the pseudo-dragon in 1 volley of shots.

- Black Serpent moved 12" forward, then pivot to initially target the Bloodthirster. Seeing that its primary target was destroyed, it shifted to the secondary target i.e. the Berzerker sqd hiding behind the LOS blocking terrain. They were all destroyed. I'm telling you, Serpents are crazy gunships!!


Turn 4
- Tri-Las Preds target my Black Serpent, causing 1 hull-pt & Stunned result, which I promptly negated with Spirit Stones.

- Bloodletters moved out of the ruins & eat my Dire Avengers in a bloody slaughterfest. The conveniently consolidated back 5" into the ruin & were in possession of 1 objective. Here was when I realized that Kadir might win the game despite the horrendous casualties he suffered - I totally forgot about those damn objectives!!

- My turn, Eldrad & co. still failed to kill the lone Berzerker. I forgot to move the 2 W-Lords. 1 shot at a Tri-Las Pred with no result. The 2nd shot at the Bloodletters, killing 1.

- The Dire Avengers inside Black Serpent decided to came out & tried to make a run towards the objective in the middle-left of the table. I needed a total of 9" to be in claiming distance. I managed to get 5" for their run move, enabling them to safely claimed that obj. all thanks to the Fleet rule.

- I tried to kill off the Bloodletters, skillfully using focus fire shots & normal shots from the Black Serpent & the 3rd Serpent that came from my right flank. They still survived.

- Crimson Hunter Exarch pivot & move forward to the Tri-Las Pred right flank, & then pivot again to target its side armor - I LOVE VECTOR DANCER!!.

Sadly, I failed all my armor penetration rolls..sigh..


Turn 5
- I couldn't remember what Kadir targeted with his Tri-Las Preds. The Black Serpent maybe? He kept pulling his Bloodletters into the ruin to salvage as much as possible. If they survived, he might pulled this game for a draw.  

- The lone Berzerker was finally killed by Eldrad.

- Wounded W-Lord moved towards the Pred, destroying the one at the back with just a single Brightlance shot. The other Pred was finally destroyed by the Crimson Hunter from point-blank shots.

- All my effort from the 3rd Serpent & 2nd W-lord managed to reduce the Bloodletters to just 1 survivor, hiding at the corner inside the ruin. The Dire Avenger passengers of 3rd Serpent tried to Battle Focus in an attempt to shoot him, but they can't see anything. AAARGH!! Kadir tied the game!!!.....


.....OR NOT!! Kadir rolled to see if we'd go for extra turn, hoping for the game to end. He rolled a 6, hence, he conceded.

Result: WE was annihilated.

Comments to be put later on.

My opinions on the Eldar after the 2 games against Kadir:-
1. Wave Serpents are unquestionably THE BEST dedicated transport currently in 40k. They are a horror to their enemy with potentially dishing out 14-t/l shots, 7 of which ignore cover at S7!!

I took 3 of them in the games, & they totally owned the shooting phase without their passengers doing anything. That's how bad-ass they are.

Kadir was right. I can already hear Quek laughing maniacally all the way from JB..


2. Despite the normal set-up prefered by other Eldar commanders, I love my Wraith Knight Scatter-Laser-Suncannon & Scatter Shield configuration. My list is lacking mass AP2 anti-heavy infantry shots. Sure, the Serpents have a lot of shots, but 2+ armour will just laugh at them. I used the W-Knight aggressively & it paid off dividends.

T/l Suncannon shots were truly terrifying. Since it can move very quickly, I also have no problem to get the Knight into firing positions, even managed to target enemy tanks side armor.

With Scattershield, the W-Knight can even hold its own against super cc unit. Kadir's Bloodthirster was exceptional cuz he managed to gain Fleshbane via Daemonic Greater Reward. Otherwise, he'd have to sacrifice no. of atks to deliver Smash atks @ S10 against the W-Knight's T8.


3. Crimson Hunter Exarch: gotta love this jetfighter. I really believe that it is the best flyer around for the purpose of intercepting enemy flyers. If the opponent doesn't have descent AA capability, then the CHE can literally dance in the sky & deliver its deadly-wow factor.


4. Eldar HQs: The Avatar is good for the counter attacking element of the army, but doesn't really have synergy with a mech-monster list.

Eldrad is pretty good, but the fact that all his spells require LOS really nerfed his prowess. He also can't choose his spell as before, so that's another down side. 205pts for just a support element is not very productive to me. Maybe a normal Farseer can do almost the same duty as Eldrad.

Karandras is actually very good, especially to bring a specialist unit closer to the enemy while giving away & sharing lots of additional special rules to that unit. I'd definitely try him again later. But, since he's almost a suicidal character, I wouldn't recommend him as your Warlord.

Next time, I'd like to try using Maugan-Ra. Since the theme of my Eldar is super shooty-mechanized-monster mash, I think he can complement the army pretty well.    

5. Eldar Troops: Dire Avengers for the win! Cheap Troops that open up for Wave Serpents, good mid-range shooting (18" plus move & run & battle focus), descent armor sv & Ld9 all for a basic of 65pts?! HELL YEAHH!!


6. Never expected to say this, but I like the current W-Lord! The removal of old-stupidity test really helps a lot, making them much more reliable. 2 x Brightlance shots, or 2 Flamer shots, 4 x S9 mastercrafted atks in cc..all at just 165pts? U can't get any of these in the previous edition!

They worked like charms when used in support of the W-Knight, thus maximizing the threats of T8 monsters. By taking the W-Lords, I can safely put away the Heavy Wraithcannon & take the Suncannon + Scattershield + Scatterlaser for the W-Knight.


In conclusion, I have to start worrying how to fight against the Eldars with my CSM. Back to the drawing board I guess.

Wraithlords gained so much being Characters. 1st is Precision Shots, 2ndly it helps them against hidden fist of troops. Last time I had no difficulty killing them in assault due to Hidden Fist and lots of S5 hits. Now if I assault, my Skull Champion will just die in challenge while the Berserkers sit down doing nothing for a turn. The only way to take them out is Shooting from far or FMC.

This Wraithknigh setup is a pain. My BT would've easily despatch a normal Wraithknight in 2 turns, freeing the BT to move to next target in my turn. Now I need 3 turns which means it will end up a sitting duck against Eldar firepower. WS killed my BT twice.

Talking about the Serpent, it is plain ridiculous.. Mobile firing platform that can take out infantries and Light vehicles at ease. Not to mention the Holofield, they can easily grab 3+ cover by hovering behind ruins. 2 Tri-lass-Preds shooting at a single Wave Serpent for two consecutive turns --> only 1 Pen (Stunned) got through.

My WE suffered badly against them in 3 games. It is so difficult being a Rhino-based CC oriented list in 6th. In order to survive, I need to up the power level.

Try spawns and jugger lords. they are the best delivery system for Khorne.

After the battle with Kadir's WE, I just got an epiphany on just how deadly Quek's list would be this edition. His playstyle is so different from mine, but I got the gist of it.

So here I put forth a list that maximizes the dreaded Wave Serpents while still be a good fight against enemy spamming AV13-AV14. Are you ready to face the horror of the Eldar?

Eldar Mechanize Grav-Tanks List 1850pts

HQ
1. Spirit Seer - Super cheap @ 70pts who will take & cast the Primaris spell Conceal making the Serpent that he's hitching-in getting 2+ cover. He also gets 1 other random spell.

TROOPS
1. 5 Dire Avengers in Wave Serpent: T/L Scatter Lasers, Shuriken Cannon, Holofield
2. 5 Dire Avengers in Wave Serpent: T/L Scatter Lasers, Shuriken Cannon, Holofield
3. 5 Dire Avengers in Wave Serpent: T/L Scatter Lasers, Shuriken Cannon, Holofield
4. 5 Dire Avengers in Wave Serpent: T/L Scatter Lasers, Shuriken Cannon, Holofield
5. 5 Dire Avengers in Wave Serpent: T/L Scatter Lasers, Shuriken Cannon, Holofield

FAST ATTACKS
1. Crimson Hunter Exarch
2. Crimson Hunter

HEAVY SUPPORTS
1. Fire Prism: Prism Cannon, T/L Shuriken Catapult, Holofield, Spirit Stones
2. Fire Prism: Prism Cannon, T/L Shuriken Catapult, Holofield, Spirit Stones
3. Fire Prism: Prism Cannon, T/L Shuriken Catapult, Holofield

TOTAL = 1845pts

P.S: The Spirit Stones can be put onto 2 of the WS instead of the Fire Prisms since the Fire Prisms will just shoot from far far away.

Against this.. I has to surrender lah..

If I were you.. I would drop the Crimson Hunter and use the points to upgrade 2 DA unit into Fire Dragons just for variety. They are good tank hunters summore. Prism is good, but if my 6 Lasscannon didn't work, what chance a single shot have?

Its not my list. Its what I expect from Quek, except that he may even be able to squeeze in another skimmer out of nowhere barebone.

The thing about Prism is that its not meant to target enemy WS. Its for those non-Serpent AV12, AV13 or AV14 vehicles with its S9 AP1, or MEW sqd with big pie plate S5 AP3, or Termies at small pie S7 AP2.

Against enemy WS, I'd shoot with the 5 Serpents cuz they can ignore cover. Even Crimson Hunters are useful against enemy WS cuz they can re-roll failed armor penetration rolls against all skimmers/flyers.

How would spiritseer's conceal affect the Serpent? I thought shrouded usr applies to the unit that the character is part of. The character is not part of the serpent as a unit (even if the serpent 'contains' the seer)